PFD v non-swimmers?

I cannot swim…
But I paddle both kayak and canoe on clam lakes and multi-day camping trips down the Colorado River.

Arizona requires a PFD on every watercraft for every person, BUT…

if you are 15 and over, you do not have to wear it. So most people strap their PFD to the deck. I see a lot of SUP here with the PFD strapped to the deck and even canoes with the PFD sitting inside.



As a non-swimmer (and please do not tell me to take lessons, I do but float like a rock and the lessons fade away), I always have my PFD on the boat, mostly on my body and zipped & buckled. In a small and calm lake like Parker Canyon and such, I wear it unzipped as it is easily 115 out here. But no one likes a safty-nazi and you cannot force a person to be safe. If they do not want to wear it, you cannot force them to meet YOUR standards of safety.

PFD
Wear a PFD. it is not for decoration. Ever notice that the USCG always has their PFD on even in calm conditions. regulations yes but smart as well.



Maybe a bit off topic but I find it odd that regulations require a PFD for everyone on board a power boat but they need not wear it. So if the boat should capsize find the PFD and try to unsuccessfully don it in the water.



It’s real simple: wear it!!



Better to be a bit hot and alive as opposed to comfortable just before you drown.



My opinion.

1 Like

your choice
I don’t agree on legislation either. But I’ll never get someone who has no ability to survive in water over their head, but who gets in a paddlecraft.



It’s very easy to learn survival swimming.

USCG
Just spent four days on USCGC Munro. They don’t always wear PFDs.

Munro
My bad. Friend’s son was on Munro up in Kodiak. High endurance cutter just shy of 400 feet.



I was referring to the smaller RIB type boats. So yes you are correct.



Anyway wear the PFD. I know, your a great swimmer, hold the 50 meter record in high school etc.



Does not matter. PFDs work !!


use of lifejacket is in part cultural,
I boat in a culture that puts a high utility on pfds- whitewater. Despite their use fatalities still happen but with a much lower frequency than they would otherwise.



Sometimes I encounter fishermen on these same waters that don’t wear pfds. I pretty much have come to expect an annual drowning from this user group where I live because pfd use is more erratic with fishermen yet the same significant ww hazards exist on the New River in WV.



The “I can swim” mentality so I don’t need a pfd mentality works for many until they encounter less ideal conditions- cold water temperatures, rough conditions (chop and waves, tides) long exposure times, fast moving current, rapidly changing weather conditions and whitewater.



Even when conditions seem mild they can change in an instant. Better to be wearing a pfd when that occurs.



Whenever I am in a paddle craft I dress for immersion. A big part of that is wearing a pfd. My assumption is that I will end up in the water even though it only happens occasionally.



Personally, I don’t find it that big a deal to wear a pfd. I do own several and select one for the conditions. I dump water on myself to cool off in really hot conditions.



My view is that a non-swimmer without a pfd is an accident waiting to happen when it comes to all paddle sports. It’s not a smart thing to do in my view.



In general, I find less experienced paddlers wear pfds less than experienced paddlers. Unfortunately, the less experienced are also the ones less able to assess water levels, changes in local conditions, and to have practiced rescue techniques.



Someday I could die paddling but it won’t be because I wasn’t wearing a pfd.



I should practice swimming more. That’s very important too.



Now consider surfers. I suspect a pfd could actually hinder their ability to negotiate some conditions. Their culture demands fitness and a strong swimming ability. I have noticed the big wave competitors have flotation devices that bring them up to the surface. I do suspect however that part on the nonuse of pfds among surfers is also just a cultural norm.



My view is that nonswimmers who paddle and don’t wear lifejackets are part of the “idiot tribe”. I tell folks “I would no sooner jump out of an airplane without a parachute than paddle ww without a pfd”. If someone I paddle with doesn’t wear a pfd then I pretty much heckle them to wear one. I’m a safety nazi. They probably don’t want to paddle with me again. That’s a good thing in my book.



If I ever paddle with Jack I won’t heckle him. I’ll assume he’s part of a culture that develops and exists like surfers- reliance on a strong ability to swim. Meanwhile I’ll still be wearing my pfd, pouring capfuls of water on myself to cool off and still thinking internally “Jack should wear his pfd”.

2 Likes

PFD
Dress for the crash not for the ride

2 Likes

Always is a tricky word
I always wear my PFD. Xcept when the creek is 6 inches deep.



I’d hate to be breaking a law when I did that.



I was on WMSL 755, 40’ feet longer the the WHECs

My local club had a SUP clinic

– Last Updated: Aug-19-16 5:42 AM EST –

18 paddle club members and 4 instructors. All the club members wore PFD's. None of the instructors did. Kind of funny actually - you can see it in the pictures:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/eckilson/albums/72157672232808656

When I asked, one of the instructors told me that the board is considered a floatation device. They are very easy to get back on as long as you have some basic swimming skills and a leash so it doesn't get away from you.

Agree with tdaniel - it's a cultural thing and SUP's come from a surfing heritage.

Instructors?
I’d love to know what agency certified them as “instructors”?

ACA

– Last Updated: Aug-19-16 7:41 AM EST –

There are certifications for SUP instructors just like canoe and kayak

http://www.americancanoe.org/?page=Instructor_Criteria

We paid an outfitter to run the clinic, and most of their "guides" are ACA certified - not that you need to be certified to teach a bunch of experienced paddlers how to paddle a SUP board.

That wasn't really my point anyway. I was just reiterating what rsevenic and tdaniel had said earlier. For SUP paddlers, the board itself is a flotation device, and other disciplines (boating, fishing, surfing) don't place the same emphasis on PFD use as canoe/kayak paddlers.

Having said all that, it is pretty stupid for anyone to be out on the water without a life jacket if they can't swim.

I can sit at Ray’s Boat House in Seattle and watch the young people paddle their boards out into Puget Sound in the summer. Nearly all of them are in bathing suits, with a PFD on the deck. The water temperature never gets above 55 degrees. F.

One of the curious characteristics of the human body is the cold water response which is an involuntary inhale when hitting cold water. We lose people at Lake Tahoe each summer. Recently we lost a Sheriff on duty when he stepped out of a patrol boat into a tender and fell in the lake. He was not wearing a PFD and drowned in about 8 feet of water.

Wear a PFD. I will not paddle with people don’t wear them or forget to put them on. Water in the West is cold. I have lost one friendship over this issue.

1 Like

[quote=“Rookie, post:2, topic:68634”]
“Don’t make us all wear bulky hot uncomfortable life jackets because a couple people died doing something wrong/stupid. Sorry, I don’t want to sound callous, but I guarantee you something foolish went on in these incidents, and it’s no reason to ‘punish’ us all!”
[/quote]. (Rookie I know you didn’t say that. )

Stupid can just be uninformed, lazy or cheap. They make a type five inflatable that comes out of a pouch on a belt. Not bulky, hot or uncomfortable. Well that last one is debatable.

Swimming ability actually has little to do with survival in tough conditions. Cold water makes everyone a bad swimmer. Some University of Nevada football players went out on paddle boards at Lake Tahoe in the summer. One was a waterman from Hawaii and used to the ocean. He did not take a PFD. The wind came up and he drowned.

While this is a four-year-old thread, the cluelessness continues. Yesterday while raking my front lawn I noticed two box store kayaks and a SUP in the middle of the lake, paddled by kids who came up with their parents to visit their weekend cottage. Air temp was 52F in the sun, water temp maybe 40F and winds were gusting to 28 mph. Not a PFD in sight; the kayakers weren’t even wearing long sleeved shirts. Any capsize could have been fatal.

The best I could do is send the cold water safety link to the lake association president and ask him to include it in the spring newsletter, in the hope parents will read it and think twice before letting their kids do stupid things because they don’t know any better.

3 Likes

When you get to cold water, or air, it isn’t about swimming any more. It is about having your mind still working. And that goes way ahead of basic metabolic functions. You could have every rescue device known to man attached to you, but if you lose your marbles you will not be able to use them.

What a PFD does is allow you to hang on to a little energy for thinking rather than swimming, maybe buy you a few minutes.

2 Likes

It makes it easier for the rescue party to find the victim.

1 Like

I always like to have the keys for the shuttle car figuring that it will encourage others to find my body. :wink:

2 Likes

My college (and some others) had a swim test requirement – swim a mile and tread water for 15 minutes, or no diploma.

1 Like

SUP paddlers seem to be the worst offenders. They are out on Lake Tahoe in April in a bathing suit and a PFD on the deck. It happens all the time. I can’t remember the last time I have seen a SUP paddler with a PFD, much less a wet or dry suit.