Last I saw
Eddyline was forming their own hulls and decks… on a really cool machine I might add.
To clarify my earlier post re Tracer
I inspected it very thoroughly and could not find even one blemish. My complaint about the seat not fitting is probably only applicable to me since I see others, who are larger than me, have liked the Tracer seat.
As for the Fathom, the above comment that it just seems to fit right out of the box is exactly how I experienced it. When I got in it and settled down I felt like the seat was custom made just for me.
To be honest, I’ve also complained on this forum about seats in Chatham 16, Yukon Expedition and whitewater boats from Perception and Dagger. I’m just fussy, so don’t let my seat comments re the Tracer put you off of buying one. The Tracer IMHO is a darn fine boat and well worth the modest price. Actually, I’m surprised they sell it so low since all the other thermoformed boats in its class are up the in the mid-$2000 range.
Kocho…
Regarding my issues with my fit in the Tracer…
The way the seat is attached to the boat, with vertical posts and round-headed bolts, makes the seat more narrow than it needs to be. I’m not that big a guy (wear size 32x30 Levi’s), but the seat was snug for me but useable, but too narrow for my wife. I also found that my legs didn’t fall naturally into position against the braces - I had to tension my leg muscles to get a firm fit. I tried adding lots of foam in various places, and that helped, but bottom line it just didn’t work for me.
As I said in my earlier post, fit is very much a personal issue, and I know lots of folks with Tracers who are very happy with them, as are some paddlers who have posted to this thread. In my case, I had pretty much given up on finding my “perfect” boat until I paddled the Fathom, and my wife and I were so impressed we immediately bought two. And thus, I now have the Tracer to sell.
Cheers,
David
My two cents
I own an Eddyline fathom, and have seen and inspected, but not paddled several Hurricaine boats. I picked the thermoform product for many of the same reasons other posters have mentioned. It’s rigid, can take some abuse and it almost looks like fiberglass. Hands down Eddyline is the better produced and assembled product. The fit and finish is at the top of the market and between the Fathom (hard chine)and Nighthawk (soft chine) models, either boat will fit the needs of most of the paddling community. I concur with previous posters that Eddyline is a leader in the market and produces their boats from beginning to end. It’s a fine “Made in the USA” company.
The Fathom is a fast gear hauler for larger paddlers, for smaller paddlers Eddyline also offers the Fathom LV.
In the industry I believe we’ll see more and more thermoform products hitting the market. There’s still a place for fiberglass and rotomolded, but thermoform is gaining significant market share.
Emanoh, I agree. The only reason I
don’t currently paddle an Eddyline is the height of all of their back decks. Every Eddyline has a reasonably high back deck, if they make a nice 17-19 ft greenland boat someday I will be there. What bothers me a little here is the fact that neither manufacturer has chimed in here to set the record straight. I really like Eddylines thermalformed boats, but I have not yet seen another thermalformed boat I would buy (quality). I beleive there is a company in Canada that is thermalforming but I have not one yet. I loved my Nighthawk ,but eventually grew out of it and needed a low back deck for where I was going. The company was great to deal with too.
Stiffness
With all of this talk about the stiffness of Eddyline vs. Hurricane, let me ask a basic question. What is the advantage of the extra stiffness? You read about this all the time in regards to cars, but they’re much more complicated beasts. I want to buy another boat next year and these both look interesting to me. Thanks.
Stiffness
I have two boats - fiberglass and rotomolded plastic. The Fiberglass is much stiffer and I can feel that in the water. It does not flex much at all, except the area of the hull under my thighs - I can occasionally feel that give-in slightly when goind over the top of a large steep ocean wave. The plastic boat I have in contrast flexes over any wave. Does that matter? probably not in terms of performance.
Some argue that sideways flex will decrease the paddling efficiency as some of the energy from your stroke goes into hull flex instead of forward motion. There may be something to this, but it probably only has a practical consequence for advanced race paddling.
Other than that, I think if the boat is strong, whether it flexes a little does not matter. Think of the skin on frame boats - they flex a lot and some think this is actually good as it absorbs energy from the waves rather than push the boat around as it would do with a hard-shell boat.
So, I think it really does not matter much for practical purposes on the water for almost all of us. It matters on the car rack and in storage more though. Most rotomolded boats on racks will deform in transport or when left alone on the beach where glass or the Eddyline/Hurricane/Delta etc. will not and that is especially true in the sun/high temps. This deformation is usually reversible and goes away within minutes of putting the boat on the water, so again, does it matter?
Stiffness
I’ve had glass and poly, now thermalform ABS (Trylon). Flexing is very pronounced only when getting it or out of the boat. Lean hard on the gunwales or deck when on land and it moves a lot, really surprised me the first few times. No noticeable flexing when paddling.
Eddyline
"Fathom (hard chine)and Nighthawk (soft chine)…"
What difference is there between the hard and soft chine? One easier to paddle than other?
Soft vs. Hard chine
In my limited experience with both types of boats (but not these particular boats), a soft-chined boat will let you smoothly lean and edge with a less pronounced transition b/w the points where you start and end your lean (or when you flip over, in the extreme case)
A hard chined boat has a more clearly defined transistion b/w upright and leaned position.
Soft or hard has no direct relationship to how stable the boat is at the edge - just how distinct is the transition in getting there from upright position.
Some say that hard chines create extra drag in the water. All else being equal, hard edges indeed create more turbulence. This may also translate in the boat being more or less affected by side shop, not only in loss of forward paddling efficiency. But don’t ask me to quantify - I have no idea if that can even be felt by the average paddler or not…
For example, in my hard-chined boat I can lean it sort of locks and stays there with minimal effort. My soft chined boat also leans with minimal effort and is just as stable at the edge, but does not stay there - I move it moves -;). Some people like one, some like the other…
Forgetting stiffness; forgetting price
I just wanted to get opinions of what people think is the better boat to paddle, regardless of stiffness or price. Both brands are available in my general area, but not at the same dealership. Thanks.
paddled one that pulled right
I demo’d a Tracer this Spring that pulled strongly to the right. I attributed that to leecocking, having not considered a “bend” to the hull. Since other reviews don’t mention a tendency to leecock, I wonder if this might have been the case.
On the same day, I paddled the CD Oracle, another thermoform boat and was very impressed. I think it’s priced right between the Tracer and the Eddyline.
They are different
The Hurricane Tracer has effectively shorter waterline and more rocker, so it is more maneuverable and slower.
Other than that, it is a matter of how you fit in either boat and if you care for any particular features that one has and the other does not.
The day hatch IMO is a very useful feature that the Hurricane lacks - especially on longer paddles where you can’t or don’t wan’t to get to a beach to take stuff out mid-way (like a drink or a snack).
The Eddyline is about 10lb heavier, which is not much but is noticeable and may be a factor. It also has more volume in the front hatch for storage.
I would imagine the Fathom will track better but be harder to turn (unless you edge it all the way sideways, in which case pretty much any boat turns easy).
Neither has a rudder, so directional corrections are up to you.
Hurricane Tampico 135S
I bought this boat 5 weeks ago and love it. VERY light weight and easy to haul out from my second floor apartment. I bought it used off craigslist, and it has its share of wear on it but seems to be in great shape. It tracks well and is very zippy and responsive.
My only two issues with it is my overall skill level with such a narrow boat, and I need to replace the seat back— both of which are easily fixed.
Tampico 135L
I paddled the L last year and really liked it also. I wanted the shop to order me the 140L but they talked me into the Necky Manitou 14 instead. It seemed like the shop didn’t wanting me to leave empty handed, even though they’re the only place in the area that sells Hurricane (it wasn’t like I was going to go somewhere else for it). I’m not sure that I liked the Hurricane better, or it just left the most lasting impression because it was the last boat I paddled (I’ve talked to a couple of other people who also liked the last boat tested the best). But I still think about checking it out again quite often. Not to mention the Tracer (which I may not fit in, considering I didn’t fit in the 135S) and their upcoming sea kayak for bigger boys (Hurricane emailed me in January telling me that they’re working on this and that it would be out within the year).
Plastic in Hurricane vs. Eddyline Kayaks
I own an Eddyline Skylark which is now in its second season and has had “four years of use” on at least four rivers and two lakes - some class II and III. As a woman alone I’ve traveled four states loading and unloading to the top of a Blazer using a roller bar and have traveled literally miles through the woods getting from the car to water (a little dragging almost cannot be helped); I most generally land on either a rocky river bank or concrete boat ramp. At home, the boat is stored indoors - but she has spent the majority of this spring and summer tied to a tree, exposed to the weather on the bank of a lake allowing easy access for daily paddling. There is NO fading or discoloration.
There are some minimal to very moderate scratches on the bottom of my boat that can be felt but are near invisible to the eye. The top of the boat is in absolutely “new” condition, as is the floor - there is no staining or scratches whatsoever.
I bought this boat new as someone who had never paddled before, and would now consider myself “intermediate” to “advanced intermediate” at this time. It’s a dream to paddle, tracking is excellent. I have had the opportunity to try out several other boats while “trading” with folks I’ve met along the way - I’ve never tried one that was better than mine and the only possibly negative comment I’ve received on mine is the “smallish cockpit” that for some “larger” paddlers appears to feel a little confining at first.
This boat is so stable that I’ve entrusted my 14 and 12 year old grandchildren to it with no qualms (while I paddle grandpa’s stinky cheap-o kayak…you DO get what you pay for, and I learned that the hard way!! I hate that junky boat!!)
Good luck, I hope you pick yourself a winner!!
Stiffness, chines, and sniff test.
Stiffness- Ask someone who paddles a surf ski or a rapier or epic. Stiffness is very important relative to efficiency. Flexing is energy lost, energy and movement that could have been used to propel the boat forward. A hull flexing up is losing forward momentum and glide. I really noticed this the most when I windsurfed, the difference between an abs Dufour and a Mistral composite was night and day in terms of acceleration and the continuation of a speed. On flat water the difference becomes far less. The difference between chines is mostly the transition between primary and secondary stability, tracking, and speed. Because of a soft chines continuous radius, the sense of stabilty is more continuous between primary and secondary or more distinct in the hard chine. The hard chine tracks better because it resists side shift with its flattened sides, it also makes it less manueverable to an extent. I would rather have better tracking whenever possible. The soft chined boat is faster, all other factors being equal. Why? I have no idea but it has something to do with the amount of wetted surface and an engineering formula I am far too stupid to ever understand. The sniff test. When you look at these two boats side by side, do they smell the same? I mean really,if you cannot see an obvious difference from one to the other, buy the one that costs less. For me, I took one whiff and knew where I was going. It was that obvious to me, a quick look (sniff) and I could see the difference, but, and this is a big but, YOU MUST PADDLE any boat you are thinking of buying. This is not a sniff test and is far more important to how happy you might be with your purchase. What looks and feels good in the showroom, may drive you crazy on the water. No quick test either, paddle it until you are getting a little tired and see how she treats you when you need her and not the other way around. My opinion, but you know what they say about opinions.
Rehashing the Subject
I finally caught a break in the weather to try the Hurricane Tracer…
I’m thinking the Fathom is worth the money. If its your first boat, you might as well buy one you’re the most comfortable with even if it costs extra. The Fathom had an extremely great feeling while paddling. The speed, all the adjustments and for me, and the fit and finish are unquestioned. As much as I want to get out on the water now in my OWN boat, its best to wait for the right one.
If you don’t like the Fathom (that’s doubtful though) then give the Tracer a try. Thermoformed ABS is superior to Rotomolded Polyethelyne and if I were sticking to the 1,000-2,000 dollar range I would get the Tracer 165.