I attended all of the Raystown gatherings. It was great putting faces to names. And all the boats to see and even paddle. Amt the most, we had over 100 people there and a bonus was a manufacturer
Even showed up. It was a great time on a very large lake.
Andy, I always kind of envied you guys at that gathering. I know pblanc and DuluthMoose both made it there once. It was kind of a long haul for me and I was doing two Ozark trips/year and one trip to some northern river or other - and I was still working thenā¦just couldnāt justify it. Years after the Rayston 'vous ended, however, I was enlisted to pick up a travel trailer in Gettysburg and drive it back. It was on the way so I camped at Raystown and spent a night at the venue. It was indeed a lovely place.
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I organized annual winter camping trips duting the long Veterans Day Holiday for guys I worked with. It lasted a few years, but it dwindled. I enjoy alcohol as much as the next working alcoholic, but the trips I planned were typically cold so I opted out regarding alcohol. Most of the others wanted a drinkfest. My friend told me that the year I didnāt go, guys were falling into the fire pit.
Then I arranged to go with just my closest friend and our sons. That dwindled as well. After a few trips, he told me his wife wanted him paint the living room. When I reminded him that he painted it the year before, he said she was tired of the color. Thus ends the things we do for pleasure.
Employment is probably the primary obstacle for most, then sports for the kids, household repairs, mowing the lawn . . . Iām retired and canāt figure out where the time goes. My grand daughters show promise, but theyāre preoccupied with Volleyball and trips to tournaments.
A lot of work goes into planning group trips.
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Why did Raystown die out being such a great event?
No idea, other than it was held for a number of years,and maybe people just lost interest
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We have to examine why, because if we donāt know why we wont be able to revive events like this that so many people enjoyed. It is a shame that it is lost, it brings people together instead of dividing them.
How are you doing by the way?
We had a Rendezvous on Lake Jocassee a few times but it died. Two of those we had bad weather that was not expected but the primary reasons were related to life moving on. Age, time, divorce, other interests .
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But shouldnāt it evolve into other groups and gatherings?
Apparently not without a primary driver or 2.
The things string mentions are certainly true. I guess any group doing any thing is in some sort of dynamic equilibrium with group losses countered by new members.
In the case of the Ozark group in addition to aging out weāve had a great numbers of participants pass away - including some that organized the very first Ozark gatherings. I donāt know how long youāve been on Pnet/com, mjac, but if its been a while you might remember posts from some of these folks ā¦ wgiven, tripS, DuluthMoose, containership, Wildernessweb, Durangoski and most recently TheBob.com (laterBobGitchell). WildernessWeb and TheBob were the organizers of the very first Ozark 'vous. Wgiven and TripS were in the original group that later became the Ozark 'vous.
Pam has done heroic service in keeping the ball rolling recently - and that could be another reason groups fade away: lack of some key person who devotes time and effort to keeping things rolling and who is positioned to be āin the knowā about local paddling situations. (Floods, droughts, changes in camp regs. & such)
It might also be that there arenāt that many young paddlers who want to hang with a bunch of old codgers like many of us. Its not every younger personās cup of teaā¦ perhaps they feel they donāt āfit inā? But there arenāt any new groups of younger paddlers forming either, as far as I can see.
I keep coming back to thinking thereās something larger - something thatās being overlooked - something thatās working against group formation and perhaps against older groups thriving.
Its a mystery to me. And its why I started this thread.
There are lots of smart, good-hearted paddlers. No small number of them are here. Iām seeking their (your) thoughts in the hopes that we might figure something out together that will benefit us all in the long run. There are very few things of note that spring from the head of some genius sitting in isolation uninformed by the thoughts of othersā¦ Most good ideas are distilled from the interchange of thoughts.
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āi keep coming back to thinking thereās something largerāā¦
Thanks for pointing out that sentence -
Its quite possible that Iām making the logical error of thinking that things, even large scale things like All these other groups drifting apart combined with the absence of new group formation, must have a single large scale cause. It could be, as chaos theory would allow,
a) that the cause is something small but in that in interconnected systems can yield disproportionately large effects and/or
b) that there must be a single cause for a single proportional effect. Many things occur as a result of combinations of causative elements.
and c) the power of āone or two principlesā, as string suggested, can play a very large role in the social cohesion of groups. Many thanks and much credit must go to Pam for the role she played for the last many years. Gratitude is something we donāt express often enough.
It also occurs to me that the groups that were examined in āBowling Aloneā were all groups that met with quite a bit of regularity - bowling or softball leagues, trade groups, various activity or interest-oriented clubs all meet with greater frequency than the annual or biannual groups like weāre talking about here. We are perhaps more traditional, they more habitual. Paddling clubs last pretty well, come to think of itā¦
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If it is recognized, it will be acknowledged, if it is acknowledged it will be thought about, if it is thought about it will be resolved.
Itās also possible that the forum provides many a specific anonymity that they value. Views can be expressed without personal attack. All the public know is your public identity not your personal one. I have a core network of family and friends whom I donāt spend enough time with. We can disagree and walk away like it never happened. When challenge, I follow up with the researching the challenge. Regardless of the results, I either abandon or reinforce my belief. However, in a real world encounter, weād continue to disagree on how to paddle, who to vote for in the next election, the techniques others need to develop or the kind of boat that is best. On the forum, you shut down the device.
Everybody isnāt gregarious. Some prefer to protect privacy. One advantage here is meeting like minded people. Reading between the lines, itās fairly clear that there are many personal bonds. Friends, even best friends change. Families break apart. Spouses divorce. Itās part of a natural cycle of needs.
If you want to build a relationship, organize it. Anyone seeking companionship of that circle will join. I formed my bro-mances, based on mutual respect.
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Iāve always thought of the board here as being a digital campfire where behind the conversation the sound of flowing water, wind, and waves is in the back of each participantās mind: A place where paddlers of all persuasions and levels of interest can gather to āchaw the fatā over whatever comes up. That would include boats, design, paddling techniques, preferred venues, clothing, memories, whatever.
For many many years, since jr high school at least, I was as jyak. Iād paddle with family and a few friends. I remember when I used to say āI pick my nose sometimes, but I donāt need to join a nose-pickerās club.ā In retrospect though, I have to say I didnāt paddle as much back then nor did I take the paddling itself very seriously. It was a way to go camping away from the campground crowding.
When I finally did start going to paddling club meetings, and later the rendezvous, it was after my parents had died, after the divorce, after moving away from childhood family and friends, working in jobs that were pretty isolating, living alone in a 100yr old farmhouseā¦ well, all humans are social creatures to some degree. It is both unhealthy and uncomfortable for anyone to deny that for too long, to isolate for years on end. As anyone would, I sought some social contact.
I now have a small circle of friends, keep in touch with a couple friends from college, one who is still alive from just after high school - and the paddlers I know.
Anonymity is valuable to a degree - Iād prefer not to show a license number on a āboats on carsā thread, divulge my social security number, etc., but a āpublicā vs, āprivateā identity? Heck, I donāt even own a smartphone (no reception āout in the sticksā where I live) I donāt do Facebook or Twitter, or whatever - out of a desire for some degree of anonymity and a desire to limit how much of my data is available to be capitalized on. Iām not the unibomber but I might look a bit like him in some profiles. As we speak I donāt have running water, but the pipes in the well pit are thawing.
I donāt do impersonations well and would just as soon avoid trying. Others, of course, will do as they will.
But I value the digital campfire, the actual campfire, and I value the 'vous. Iām human, a paddler, like everyone here. Gatherings such as the Ozark 'vous are valuable to those such as we are. It would sure be nice to figure out how to encourage such things and if thereās something that can be done to make such gatherings more resilient.
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You are completely consistent with my view. However, the difference is our desire for varied interaction. After living 73 years, Iāve figured out who I will favorably interact with in a face to face setting. A very dear former coworker friend and I have been on the phone from midnight to daybreak, but canāt spend eight hours with him in a car. I looked forward to a long holiday camping trip at the same park with my family and the family of a women from my office. Her two sonās spent the weekend tearing branches from trees. When they broke camp at the end of the trip, rather than leaving the wood for the next camper, they threw the left over firewood in the fire pit and left it burning. In our first apartment complex, we befriended a group of neighbors and had a great time, until the husband and wife ran off with another partnerās spouse. That has a way of quelling the desire to engage in soirees with strangers. Learn how to better manage human behavior and you will be on your way to successful camporees.
I believe the demise of specific events are as @PJC and @string explained. Many reasons. These are just a few.
This forum is a great opportunity to form bonds, but not everyone has the same goal or social needs. So the question remains: why donāt the group gatherings continue or regenerate. I know my own reasons, so all I can do is offer that perspective.
Others may agree with me, but that doesnāt mean anyone else agrees or needs to endorse my perspective. At least you know why Iām out. My goal is to go across country to meet one member and hook up with another member who lives about two hours away, so we can share techniques. What intrigues me is each of us have very different paddling styles and prefer different paddles. The best way to learn is to try another method. I find it humorous that Iāve been accused of trying to get everyone to do what I do - I wonāt camp with such people
Iām just saying there are many reasons why your goal is unrealized and believe youāre efforts will be a long struggle. It takes a lot of work to organize dissimilar people, hinting that itās probably up to you to set up. Hope Iām wrong. Good luck in fulfill your goal, and donāt be discourage if at first you fail. The members who managed to enjoy such gatherings were very fortunate.
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Jyac, thanks for your thoughts and please understand Iāve no desire to enter into a debate. I see where youāre coming from and entirely respect it. Even have shared it.
Canāt help but share a memory triggered by your passing comment about a friend who you would have trouble driving with. I have a friend - a fine fellow and devoted white water paddler who I drove from Wisconsin to Utah to paddle the Green River with. Heās a generous and trustworthy fellow, very dedicated to whatever he does, in many respects a sterling fellow - BUT he simply hates Walmart. Can you imagine how many Walmarts one passes between here and there? He couldnāt help himself from expounding on the subject. Every time we passed a Walmart or one of their trucks I heard the phrase āYou know what pisses me off?ā I had to bite my tongue to keep from replying āYou know, I was just about to ask you about that.ā That would have been a smart ass reply that would have echoed through several states and a world of corn.
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Nothing to debate. My touble with the friend is that I asked him to be prompt. I invited him to accompany me on a trip down the Blue Ridge Parkway. It takes 3.5 hours to get to the northern entrance to the Blueridge Parkway in Front Royal Virginia. My goal was the highest peak. I droven out of my way to pick him up, and asked him to be ready. I called him to make sure he was awake. No answer. Got to his house, no amswer. I was ready to knock on his door, and he came out half dressed. I asked him to get moving, rather than tell me how his morning was going. 15 minutes later, he came out. Through the trip, frequent rest stops and so on . . . When I make a commitment I follow through and expect the same from others.
It was a 12 hour day, and I had to drive home after dropping him off. I covered hundreds of miles and could only go so far before having to double back arrive at a specific restaurant in Front Royal before they closed. I was not pleased that I turned around 20 miles from reaching my goal.
Iām not sure you would enjoy my company. Count you blessings.
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At our age there isnāt enough time left for doing things we donāt enjoy.
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