I think I know where to start
I need to get back to the comfortably stiff arms, forget the push and pull and try to rely strictly or mostly on stiff arms and torso rotation to propel the boat. Im pretty sure I rely to heavely on push/pull. Been trying to combine them all but may not be the right maneuvers.
Thanks
Brian
“comfortably stiff arms”
>I need to get back to the comfortably stiff arms, forget the push and pull <
Isn’t one of Brent’s 5 elements of the forward stroke goes something like :
“push with a bend elbow”
or was it
“push with a LOCKED elbow”?
Either way, if you can’t straighten out or bend up your arms, you’re pretty much forced to rotate your torso a great deal more. And that’s (something of) the idea. More power from the torso, less from arms. Arms happy, paddler happy.
This could be Key
Although I have tried to stick to the stiff arms form maybe I haven’t been so successful, beware I should be very fast soon.
Anybody wanna race ?
Brian
Practice…
Come on down and do the Bogey course once a week. There are no shortcuts and the race limit is 4 hours for the 13 miles, but your boat should be able to do it in 2:30.
I guarantee you will hurt less and get faster each time…
NO PAIN, NO GAIN
it may be too long
What would be the biggest negative of a too long paddle? I am guessing it would take more energy to comlete the strokes but, at the same time, would offer more leverage.
I seem to be more interested in making good time for several hours as opposed to maintaining a constant middle speed for longer periods of time.
long paddle
>What would be the biggest negative of a too long paddle? <
I’m not an expert in this. But a too long paddle potentially limits your stroke rate because the paddle has to travel a longer path, and not all that path is generating forward propelsion.
And people who has too long paddle tend to paddle with lower angle strokes, which might turn the boat more than just pushing it forward…
I am guessing it would take more energy to comlete the strokes but, at the same time, would offer more leverage. <
I found shorter paddle with bigger blade a better way to get maximum leverage than a long paddle with medium size blade. Isn’t that why whitewater boaters use these huge blades with rediculously short shaft (190cm)?
video
My wife and I are casual paddlers like yourself and 3-6 miles is what we usually paddle.
The biggest key to good paddling is technique. For all the money you spent on a boat what is a few dollars more? Go get Brent Reitz’s video Forward Stroke Clinic. You will probably have to order it from a kayak store on the net as most stores don’t carry it.
After we got it (and practiced what he suggested) our paddling improved a lot. This last winter I helped a lot of older people (new paddlers over 60 years old) paddle better and now they are happier. It does work.
Paddle size and length are a matter of how you want to paddle. The trade off is power vs turnover rate. I am about your size and use a large blade paddle. My wife likes a small blade which she can pull through the water easily.
She uses a much faster turnover rate. If I could get my turniver rate up to that rate nobody would even see me go by. We stay together (both paddling continously) without any trouble.
Just enjoy however you paddle.
Paddle with stiff arms for a while
– Last Updated: Oct-14-04 5:34 PM EST –
and your question on torso power application should be answered. If the exaggerated stiff arm is really awkward - you've been arm paddling. If not so bad, and boat moves along OK, you've been using more core.
Totally stiff arms is of course only really useful for checking yourself - but does show the boat moves pretty well without much bicep/triceps action.
I seriously doubt I have that great of a stroke myself (plus with GP it's a little different) - but after 18 miles my arms are not complaining at all. Shoulder (right) a little sometimes - but due to some chronic thing - not paddling. Main impact I feel is on abs/back and some leg - but those share the load pretty evenly and can handle it.
I'd love to get out 2-3 time a week - if for nothing more than to toughen my hands a little more. Wonder if I could change my work schedule...
The main reason I'm an advocate of distance is you don't have to analyze things so much (and when you do it will make more sense - sore muscles are effective teachers). The smaller muscles will give out and you will naturally have to rely on the stronger core muscles (even untrained cores are stronger than arms) to get you back.
I had done many 20 mile day paddles, and a couple near 30 milers, before viewing the Brent Reitz tape - and it all made sense directly/physically - not just mentally because of that. Smarter to watch the tape before - but doing things the hard way is not so bad when it's done on the water. I was paddling those distances on an SOT before I'd ever heard of Brent Reitz or P.net. I didn't know what was short or long/fast or slow and just paddled where/how I wanted to. Paddling mostly alone - I gravitated to just paddling over mixing paddling with other social activities.
Easiest way to do 10+ miles is to paddle 5+ miles away from the put in. Watch the tides, even our minimal currents matter if you hit them on the return.
The best tip I can offer to make more distance easier is to make subtle adjustments along the way. Change stroke angle, cadence, stroke length, and such any time you start to feel any tired/soreness creeping in. Little tweaks will let you eek out extra distance. Again - this happens naturally if you push past your norm and the muscles you usually use tire.
Really great technique spreads the load well enough that you can just paddle that way - but few of us are that good. Some variability really helps. Even the experts switch it up a bit as the miles add up.
Variability is a big part of why I really love the GP - super variable - and the closer grip definitely does not encourage arm paddling. Very much a torso powered paddle whether using Reitz/Barton type rotation, more of a Greenland sprint/crunch style, or anything in between.
What abc Said
– Last Updated: Oct-15-04 5:58 PM EST –
I'm no expert. I'm barely intermediate, but my instincts tell me 'do not look at your paddle blade!' I think it could become a bad habit. Let me rephrase that. I've seen it become a bad habit.
Last weekend I was talking with my buddy about torso rotation for a good stroke. Two ideas seem to work for both of us. One is to concentrate on 'showing' your chest to each side of the boat. The other concept that worked was a nearly stiff elbow.
I don't think there's any advantage in thinking about glide. Maybe in really long endurance stuff, but not when trying to increase speed.
Torso Rotation
This is tricky. I too, thought I was rotating my torso, but when I attended a skills clinic last spring given by reputable coach, he pointed out that all I was doing was rolling my shoulders, thus giving the illusion of torso rotation. Very devious of me, A good dry land exercise is torso twists with a weighted bar on your shoulders, either in front or back of your neck. (With two shoulder spurs I hold it in front.) It allows you to feel what a proper rotation should feel like. This coach also disagreed with tracking the blade with your eyes, fine for a sweep roll, but a bad habit for forward stroke. Sit up straight, spear the blade as close to vertical and as tight to the boat as you can (He wanted to see scars on the deck where I’d hit it, trying to get closer.) and bury the blade rapidly. Keeping stiff arms and hands high promotes the unwinding in the catch, or power phase. Releasing the stroke when the blade moves roughly parallel to the hips, and squaring the blade so it lifts cleanly out of the water with a ‘snick!’ was key. If it’s cocked and you hold the stroke too long, you’re just lifting water and wasting energy. The elbow lift, actually a raise of the whole shoulder, positions the forward moving blade where you want it to be. Again hands high. A good trick is to wear a visor, and keep your hand above the level of the brim. It ain’t easy to link all this stuff together. Practice, practice, practice-you’ll feel it when it clicks, as you’ll be rotating and unwinding, as you pull the boat past the paddle. Here again, longer paddles are key, but will also ingrain bad habits to muscle memory. The other part of it is that different strokes work for different folks. Some people can do just fine with a lower angle stroke (GPs, etc.), and having a repertoire allows you to conserve energy by focusing on other muscles when the primary ones fatigue. I’m always at it now, and was embarrassed last weekend-had a bad day, and my stroke was horrific. Guess who was there? Oh well, had fun anyway.
GP NOT LOW ANGLE!!!
Sorry - but that’s a HUGE pet peeve.
The “low angle” label continues the spread of misinformation regarding GPs that cause people to miss out on the full potential of a great piece of gear.
The “low and slow” advocates are from a small group of Midwestern paddlers spreading their own limited and rather non-traditional forward stroke style! Even their paddles are made differently (wider looms) to accomodate this - and the differnt grip they use.
I’m sure it works fine for them - and maybe not such a huge difference when veiwed bt non-GP paddlers - but it’s not representative of how most paddle GPs - particularly not the Greenlanders!!
GP is an ALL angle paddle. Anything from near vertical (with or without wing stroke flare) to more horrizontal. Mine is rarely below 45 degrees for even relaxed cruising - often around 60 - and a good bit steeper at speed.
In this reagard it is very similar to other paddles, except it offers more flexibilty of stroke options -ncluding low angle strokes. Even a steep angle wing stroke works - only real difference being the closer hand position and how that alters height of push hand crossing centerline - which will be at chest instead of eye level (if you want fully burried blades).
End of rant.
And I thought this was…
Supposed to be a relaxing sport. Everyone talks about speed like that is the only way they enjoy paddling. If you are pushing over 300 pounds (paddler and kayak) in a kayak, you are setting up lots of resistance. A little old lady that weighs 130 pounds in a 50 pound boat could paddle circles around you. Kids could paddle circles around you. Why not just go out there and paddle at a normal cadence for you, and let them all go bananas and end up with tennis elbow? I enjoy a sprint once in awhile, but I don’t try to race every person on the water. Sit back and enjoy the scenery.