Plastex
Thank you for posting the link. Aled had written me some time ago about Plastex, but I hadn’t found their web site.
As I recall, Tiderace is using Plastex because their ability to produce boats of consistent quality exceeds any current manufacturing in the UK.
P&H has the best reputation for quality build of any British manufacturer. I assume they want to keep it that way.
I think the responders are…
…being a little hard on DannyB. He didn’t say the outsourced product will be junk. He’s just concerned about the effect on quality. P&H boats may or may not be built in Poland, China or my hometown. That’s not the point.
The point, is that the buying public has come to believe in the quality of their boats based on how and where they are built. Now, if they decide to have some of their boats manufactured elsewhere then the buyer has a right to know. Nobody likes to feel like the victim of the old “bait and switch.” They might be great quality boats, but one should at least be informed as to the where the item was made.
no, the point is
that he’s posting/publishing a rumor
Why don’t you call P&H?
You posted:
"I guess my ideal response will be a reply direct from P&H reassuring this forum that no P&H badged kayaks will be made by third party manufactures, in which case I will check my source and if a mistake has been made I’ll apologise and remove my post. "
Then why not call or email P&H… Why post on an internet forum, that they aren’t responsible for…
seems simple to me…
Not once, but twice
DannyB has chosen to post the same breathless news flash not once, but twice on different public forums: “… word to the wise for anyone looking to buy a P&H kayak …”; “… my ideal response will be a reply direct from P&H reassuring this forum …”
Correct me if I am wrong, but in reading DannyB’s posts I see no attempt to contact P&H. I checked out P&H’s website, and if you click on the “Contact Us” function and you’ll get e-mail, telephone and FAX contact information. Before posting on a public forum, a good first step would have been to contact P&H directly.
As someone else has posted, the real potential issue is not offshore production, but potential QC issues when production gets moved. For example when Wenonah purchased Current Designs and moved production from Canada to the US (hardly an “offshore” move), there were some initial bumps in the production road; and Wenonah and its dealers stood behind their product and fixed the problems.
Whenever I have had a problem with a boat, I have worked with the dealer and/or contacted the manufacturer directly. And each time my problem was eventually resolved to my satisfaction.
Don’t think that DannyB will have too much to worry about getting a Polish or any other P&H boat, as there appear to be so many other people with their money in their hands clamoring for P&H product.
I have no connection to P&H or any other manufacturer - I don’t even like paddling Brit boats. What’s got me so upset is the inherent unfairness of posting DannyB’s kind of gossip on a public forum.
as a new poster
– Last Updated: Mar-22-08 5:06 PM EST –
First as a new poster I wasn’t sure which forum was right to post on, so I did post twice, I apologise!! . Secondly I have no axe to grind, I’ve tried to make clear in all posts that I have no problem with the principle of Polish or any other country manufacturing kayaks. My concern is that the shift won’t be seamless and that if it is happening there might not be the transparency needed to fully evaluate any difference between domestically produced and outsourced products.
To clarify, if it is happening and I am able to determine that a kayak I’m buying is produced in Poland, if it is of the same or better quality, I will still be buying that kayak. I fully understand the globalised nature of modern manufacture.
Where I do disagree with many of the above posts is with the concept that I should somehow be blinded to my kayaks origin or just blindly accept that just because they can make a good kayak in Derby England that they can just seamlessly pass that knowledge to a factory 1500 miles and a differing language away. We are not talking a piece of tooling that can be moved to another machine and just set to run. Alad and Tiderace is also being sited as an example of everything being OK, well it is my understanding that Tiderace gave up on another polish company (because of such problems) before it settled with Plastex.
So yes I like P&H, I just want to know, will I be able to tell if my kayak is not made by the 10 or so craftsmen in Derby?
the only question left unanswered
is: why “go public” without vetting the facts??
according to your reply, there is no motive for rumor-mongering,
so we are left scratching our heads
legitimate concern
– Last Updated: Mar-22-08 9:09 PM EST –
DannyB
At the end of the day it appears that you'e got a question that you need answered: "How can I be sure that the boat I'm buying was made in Great Britain?"
So my suggestion is that you contact P&H directly or through their reps; check out P&H's website.
No one here is saying that you need to take a manufacture's claims on faith, but several people are saying that a public internet forum is not the best place to get your question answered by P&H.
If you're that concerned about P&H's moving production, wait and see what quality of boat gets produced. Then you can base a purchase decision based on objective outcomes.
Welcome to the rowdy pnet community. Today it's you getting slammed, tomorrow it may be me. I look forward to your future comments and posts.
Mike
P.S What is a "Chinese whisper"?
Not on the same wavelength !
To be honest I thought I had answered that question. I have vetted the facts to the best of my ability, short of hiring a private detective. I am also contacting P&H directly but for two reasons I thought raising the topic on an informed forum like this was a good idea:
Firstly I thought it would highlight any issues that had manifested themselves when other companies had moved production, Epic being the most obvious example but I believe others such as Necky, Current Designs and Wilderness Systems have all moved production in the last couple of years. Giving me an idea of what to look out for.
Secondly I thought that it would give P&H the chance to set the record straight if there are any inaccuracies in the story. This I thought was far better than the story doing the rounds like some Chinese whisper through the paddling community
Obviously I’m not on the same wavelength as some on this forum!!
doesn’t pass the smell test
you want to know for sure?
Just look at the serial number. That will have the information you want. Of course you need to know what it is telling you but if they are building in another country, they will be using a different serial number sequence than the Brit boats. But save your time in asking this “informed forum” and just ask the P&H directly, like you should have in the first place.
This whole thing is lame…
– Last Updated: Mar-23-08 10:44 AM EST –
Call the damn company or email them. Enough of this masterbation. Who cares...
pollack kayakenski
did you here the one about the polish kayak?----have a nice easter- bert
LMAO +LMAO salty . DEAD ON CORRECT MAN !
right
Why did the topic get posted on two sites . As I said the book was a novel ,
yet concerns a subculture of polish and other former USSR workers in
the UK . It sounds like your PH boats , even if made in Briton , might be
made by polish workers of guest unable residency.
“Bait and Switch”?
Give us a break, will ya?
When I buy a product, I’m buying a PRODUCT, not a country of manufacture. Unless someone is a “buy British” advocate (if there is such a thing), why would they care if the boat is made in Poland? Regardless, the law requires that products state their country of manufacture, so there is bound to be a “Made in Poland” label on it, so there’s nothing fraudulent going on.
As far as quality goes, there’s no way one can equate a given country with a level of quality. Superbly crafted products are available from sources worldwide, including the currently popular whipping boy, China. Conversely, a “Made in USA” or “Made in the UK” label is no guarantee of high quality.
This whole discussion is a classic “tempest in a teapot”.
english quality
I can’t remember how long ago GB was the measuring stick for quality. I love British stuff. However, I have seen some glass and kevlar work on some of their boats that would never have left many US shops. The design and seaworthiness of British boats are tops. But they are not pieces of art regarding workmanship.
Polish made Kayaks
All of you shut up! Alot of people never get involved in this Web site because of you nit picking jerks. Vaughn Fulton
Funny…
This thread was dead… Until you pulled it back it up seven days later.
sing
I love Polish sausages. 
I cannot reveal my sources but I was
told the polish made Kayaks will be easy to spot. Just look for a bow mounted rudder or skeg!