@Rookie said:
According to reports subsequent, the sailboat crew attempted to contact the power boat. A passenger on the “Hunter” (powerboat) reported the radio was not turned on until after impact (when they probably donned those life jackets as well).
Sailboat speed was around 6 kts and crew claims it tried to take evasive action. Powerboat was traveling around 25 kts, Am guessing that even if the J/105 crew shot flares at the oncoming, they would not have been seen unless one landed on a passenger.
Maybe the USCG will make its findings public.
Yeah, I’d like to see their findings. They will be public, but it may take a while to complete.
I’m still going to go out on a limb and say the sailboat crew could have done better. 10-12 knots wind speed should have given them plenty to work with to maneuver and avoid a collision. The only way I see them not also partially at fault is if the power boat changed direction to cancel the sailboat’s evasive maneuver at the last moment. Otherwise, a direction change that would preclude crossing ahead of the power boat should have been a simple matter. It seems odd to me that with a two-man crew, they apparently chose to rely on radio, rather than simply maintaining watch and avoidance. The sailboat crew may have been “in the right”, but only lucky that it wasn’t “dead-right”.
@SteveinIdaho
6 knots versus 25 knots, and the sailboat has a certain degree of inertia that a power boat does not… The quote from the rep of the club the sailing boat was in says “The J/105 crew attempted to hail the approaching boat prior to the collision, otherwise signal, and take action to avoid the collision.”
You are assuming the power boat was going straight rather than a curving path, the latter of which would have made it much harder to evade. Nothing in this story verifies path of travel. I have been out plenty of times and stopped and waited out in open water when I saw that happening, lest I paddle into where they are going. And it is quite clear that the motor boat operators never saw the sailboat they were on top of it. If a motor boat operator is too mesmerized by the GPS screen in front of them - very much the same problem as in a car - and the boat is up on full plane they can get lazy about looking. Hence some of the response here about hitting a 35 ft sailboat - the sail should have covered the visibility part if they were looking at all…
At those speeds the motor boat had by far the last and best chance to avoid a collision, and there is something seriously off with not seeing the sailboat from a safe distance and having their radio off in a well traveled area. I never go out on the water without my VHF on alert and the volume turned up even in a kayak. And no responsible motor operator I know on salt has their radio off.
The part of the report I would be tracking if I lived down there was whether the folks in the motor boat were tested for DUI. In any case I have a hellaciously hard time blaming the sailboat operators for anything here. That big white thing sticking up in the air should do the trick.
It’s amazing how non sighted sailors and powerboaters can be. One of my kayaking haunts in Connecticut was Goose Island. Underwater at high tide and just barely out of the water at low…
An inattentive crew ran their 50 foot sailboat up on it… They blamed their instruments… “We had a depth finder”.
Um someone has to actually look at it and look out…
@Celia said: @SteveinIdaho
6 knots versus 25 knots, and the sailboat has a certain degree of inertia that a power boat does not… The quote from the rep of the club the sailing boat was in says “The J/105 crew attempted to hail the approaching boat prior to the collision, otherwise signal, and take action to avoid the collision.”
You are assuming the power boat was going straight rather than a curving path, the latter of which would have made it much harder to evade. Nothing in this story verifies path of travel. I have been out plenty of times and stopped and waited out in open water when I saw that happening, lest I paddle into where they are going. And it is quite clear that the motor boat operators never saw the sailboat they were on top of it. If a motor boat operator is too mesmerized by the GPS screen in front of them - very much the same problem as in a car - and the boat is up on full plane they can get lazy about looking. Hence some of the response here about hitting a 35 ft sailboat - the sail should have covered the visibility part if they were looking at all…
At those speeds the motor boat had by far the last and best chance to avoid a collision, and there is something seriously off with not seeing the sailboat from a safe distance and having their radio off in a well traveled area. I never go out on the water without my VHF on alert and the volume turned up even in a kayak. And no responsible motor operator I know on salt has their radio off.
The part of the report I would be tracking if I lived down there was whether the folks in the motor boat were tested for DUI. In any case I have a hellaciously hard time blaming the sailboat operators for anything here. That big white thing sticking up in the air should do the trick.
Yes. I agree with all of that, including what you say I am assuming - which I think I kind of noted. My only point regarding the sailboat crew is that they maybe could have done better, and we should never fail to be vigilant and proactive, regardless the size of our boat - which I think your comment about stopping and waiting is a good example.
BTW - I never assume that power boaters see me in my 20’ sailboat, even under full sail. I expect that they should, but I watch to be sure anyway. Anything that might come close gets an adjustment for a wider cushion while there is still lots of time. None of our small boats are on rails, and even a 35’ sailboat is still technically a “small” boat. Therefore, every such boat operator bears responsibility to actively avoid collision.
Ditto that Steve. I sail a Potter 19, and am always wary of powerboats running wide open in my direction. It behooves all boats to do what it takes to avoid collision even if they have right away. The major fault however is undeniably with the operator of the powerboat in this instance unless there is something we don’t know at this time.
Love to see a photo of your sailboat. Here is one of me on Lake Wateree, SC
The nature of my comments were in response to the statement that paddlers should stay out of marked channels etc. Some places where I paddle, you really don’t want to stray off the shipping channels, because you might run up on a sandbar, or worse. I mentioned jetties and in some cases the channel runs very close to the end of them. Some you can sneak around the end and slip quickly back out of the channel. There are some that you don’t even want to get close to the end of. Those I’ll take my chances with boat, or ship traffic any time before entering the abyss.
I’m not saying that I purposely put myself in anyone’s way, but paddling in marked channels can be a perfectly compatible place and often safer place to paddle than trusting that you won’t have a problem with an under water obstruction. I cannot see the difference in small sailboats and sea kayaks when it comes to using waterways. I can get out of the way of larger boats and ships much faster than most sailboats when they are under sail. As far as being visible–I don’t expect to be seen. I’ve had boats purposely go out of their way to see if they could give me a problem with their wake. I love it.
I once had a powerboater go out of his way to come at me. Turned toward me, got way too close, turned away and cut his engine then watched his wake. He wanted his wake to capsize me I’m sure. I disappointed him. I want to be off the water by 1:00 or 2:00 in the afternoon… especially on weekends. The drunks start getting drunk by then.
I appreciate local knowledge but here are the Rules of the Road.
Kayakers are included in sailboats… I think that needs updating
The Pecking Order
There is a “pecking order” that can be used as a simplified memory aid to determine right of way for vessels of different types. Get very familiar with this list, as it is important to understand it thoroughly. The lower most vessel on the list is the give way vessel, and must stay out of the way of vessels that are higher on the list.
Overtaken vessel (top priority)
Vessels not under command
Vessels restricted in their ability to maneuver
Vessels constrained by draft
Fishing vessels engaged in fishing, with gear deployed
Sailing vessels
Power driven vessels
Now if I were in the middle of a shipping channel I would have the right of way… But its foolish to assume you can be seen and equally foolish to assume another vessel can stop… Those warships coming down the Kennebec certainly cant nor can the ferries. Frequent restricted visibility by fog is another factor.
While we have 12-25 foot tides there is always room out of channel for kayaks. Some channels are inconvenient ie the deepest part of the channel is next to the shore and the nun or can is actually on shore but I haven’t seen anyplace that I cannot stay out of channel after crossing…And I never said panic… I hate when people don’t read.
so we teach new kayakers to stay out of harms way and when they have to be where other craft might be to stay alert. Newbies often have not a clue.
@Rex said:
I once had a powerboater go out of his way to come at me. Turned toward me, got way too close, turned away and cut his engine then watched his wake. He wanted his wake to capsize me I’m sure. I disappointed him. I want to be off the water by 1:00 or 2:00 in the afternoon… especially on weekends. The drunks start getting drunk by then.
Look really anxious as the wave(s) come toward you
Make a good show of losing your balance and freaking out
Take a DEEP breath and capsize
Stay there until you’re pretty sure the guy in the boat has started panicing
On crossing - yeah all anyone said was to cross a channel as quickly as possible or, in my post, efficiently. The panic part ramped things up needlessly.
As to the sequence of vessels… in a really skinny entrance to a harbor with working boats going in and out I just focus on the part that everyone is bigger than I am in a kayak. When people give me the wheel or the tiller of a sailboat I pay attention to the formal sequence. But in those cases I have been handling a 27 foot plus boat, so it is a more even discussion.
I have only once in a lot of years of paddling in Maine had a lobster boat purposely throw up wake at me. He circled me and he was not pulling pots, so that was a mess with the kayaker moment. Generally I stay out of their way and we all get along. That kind of thing has happened a lot more often with young idiots on inland lakes than on anything salty. I just stay upright though - not sure I have the whatever to mess with their head by pretending to drown.
My snoopy husband visited an equipment raft where a lobsterman was working…He threw his boat in gear merely to shift position and my hubby who had for some reason took the spray skirt off was faced with a flooded cockpit… He was sputtering. I was laughing… he had no business there!
My neighbors play fake swamp in their kayaks… They have mastered the heel hook and can get out of the water and back in their boats… They do this with people who violate the no wake zone. They usually get the attention of the violators.
Had a drunk in a nicely restored, wood, outboard motor boat, try to capsize me & a paddling partner several times in a matter of a couple of minutes. He couldn’t flip us with his wake, and we finally got tired of the game. Lured him into the shallows where there was a rock shelf.
We had the last laugh. He hit the rock shelf, and knocked the boat’s transom loose. We sat in our canoe, laughed & watch him sink; flipped him the bird, and went on our merry way. Don’t understand what the jerk was so pissed off about ?
@thebob.com said:
Had a drunk in a nicely restored, wood, outboard motor boat, try to capsize me & a paddling partner several times in a matter of a couple of minutes. He couldn’t flip us with his wake, and we finally got tired of the game. Lured him into the shallows where there was a rock shelf.
We had the last laugh. He hit the rock shelf, and knocked the boat’s transom loose. We sat in our canoe, laughed & watch him sink; flipped him the bird, and went on our merry way. Don’t understand what the jerk was so pissed off about ?
BOB
Now there’s a story with a happy ending. Too bad you didn’t take a video that you could send to the local news to help immortalize the event.
@thebob.com said:
Had a drunk in a nicely restored, wood, outboard motor boat, try to capsize me & a paddling partner several times in a matter of a couple of minutes. He couldn’t flip us with his wake, and we finally got tired of the game. Lured him into the shallows where there was a rock shelf.
We had the last laugh. He hit the rock shelf, and knocked the boat’s transom loose. We sat in our canoe, laughed & watch him sink; flipped him the bird, and went on our merry way. Don’t understand what the jerk was so pissed off about ?
Look really anxious as the wave(s) come toward you
Make a good show of losing your balance and freaking out
Take a DEEP breath and capsize
Stay there until you're pretty sure the guy in the boat has started panicing
Roll up and have a good laugh
Yeah, After some serious soul searching, I can see where we messed up, and were wrong, and unkind…
We should have sat placidly on the water in our tandem canoe, and let the drunken jerkoff run circles around us in his powerboat. Maybe even let him swamp us on purpose; so he could have a good laugh at our expense. If he accidentally ran over us with his boat; that would be our problem too.
NOT!
I’d do the same thing again, and the drunk be damned.
