Prospector Seat Placement for Solo??????

(in best Groucho voice) “Coitanly!!”
“But with such paddled shenanigans, canoe thwart a Romanian gymnast?”

You will never pass an instructor exam
in Lakewater 2 soloing from the bow seat backwards.





But I doubt many people spend time doing stern pinwheels and line pivots unless they are required to!



I would love to know how many people paddle Canadian Style here.

Me! Me!

– Last Updated: Nov-24-09 11:15 AM EST –

Well, maybe not like Omer or Bill or Becky, but ah's try.

FE

Thwart
On my 17’ novacraft I’d either remove the thwart behind the yoke or put it right in front of it



James

http://www.adventurecanoe.com

Read your comments about foot
extraction from under a kneeling thwart. Of course, when I have had to extract my size 15s in a hurry, it has been from (decked) c-1s, in whitewater. But even in my MR Guide, which has a gunwale-high thwart behind my back, extracting feet just to get out of the boat at an impromptu landing is a great nuisance. A lower kneeling thwart would be much worse.



Because I “invented” a high quality foam pedestal in '73, I see the real issue as being whether one wants to be able to kneel OR sit in padded comfort, locked to the bottom of the boat, or whether one is willing to forgo sitting, to be able to kneel and shift ones butt and legs from side to side on a kneeling thwart. Those of us who are very tall with great reach don’t need the shifting options of a kneeling thwart. I can lean my boats over Canadian style if I feel like it, or I can paddle them in their most efficient, level orientation and seldom need a correction stroke.



There are pedestal seats and there are pedestal seats. Many whitewater pedestals give little support on their own, so that knee cups and thigh straps are a necessity. A really well designed pedestal makes extras somewhat unnecessary, unless one is going to roll one’s open boat. I recommend that people check out the solo saddles offered by Mohawk, and skip the enormous thigh straps. You can sit or kneel on their saddles.



Finally, the reason Adam Clawson and some other slalom paddlers use ultra low kneeling thwarts is that they have a better feel for the angle of the boat than if they were on foam pedestals. Little shifting is possible, because hip locators and thigh straps keep one tightly in place.

Pedestals

– Last Updated: Nov-24-09 5:35 PM EST –

I have no doubt that pedestals are the cat's meow for big whitewater (otherwise why would all the hard-core whitewater people use them?). I'm sure they are comfy too, but for whatever reason, it seems that nobody uses them for less-demanding conditions (I even know one guy who put a removable pedestal in front of the "too-far-back" seat of a Supernova to use in big whitewater, which allowed quickly switching back to using the seat with no cluttered floor space with the pedestal removed. He's a fantastic paddler too, so I'm sure he has good reasons for prefering a traditional kneeling position for normal paddling. I haven't done any serious whitewater, and for the stuff I do, I like having unlimited seating/kneeling positions, and to be able to heel the boat for long periods simply by having my body off-center, rather than torquing the boat beneath me, so that's a good point about being able to accomplish the same thing, if you are big and tall enough, from a pedestal. "Trending" the lean almost to Canadian style I think would required some shifting to the side for any person in any boat. Still, it's not hard to see why pedestals are so nice for both boat control and easy exit when you flip. I'm just guessing that they haven't caught on for regular paddling because in THAT situation they actually do become limiting for a lot of people. Obviously they work great for you (and for you bulky feet).

hmmmm
well I never would have thought that this question would stir up such controversy.



I am not sure I have actually truly addressed what I am looking to find out:



At what position in the boat would one want to be kneeling in order to put the paddlers weight in the optimal location (for trim and positioning of the padder for effective strokes for turning) such that the boat will perform best?



Perform best meaning maneuver best and handle whitewater best (in terms of the bow riding up and over waves while still maintaining appropriate directional stability and maneuverability balance).



I don’t care what the paddler kneels on, if anything. The question is where should that paddler position himself?



Right now paddling the boat from bow seat seems to work well but certainly does leave the bow very light. In some ways that is good but not sure if it is optimal.



thanks



Matt

You want to be as close to center

– Last Updated: Nov-25-09 9:32 AM EST –

... as your stature will allow. If you happen to be 7'6" tall, just mount a solo seat as you would in any solo. Otherwise, you'll have to move you stance back some. Exactly how far would depend on your stature.

I can comfortably paddle a Malecite kneeling on canted, originally-installed center seat. Folks who are shortish can't do that, they have to move back a bit in order to get a vertical stroke.

I have NC Prospector 16 that I can't paddle effectively kneeling from a trim-neutral center position. I have to move back some. Probably not quite as far back as you.

I'd experiment with it. You can kneel on some makeshift thing. I've used a loose foam pedestal, a dry bag stuffed with clothes, and PFDs.


But, Nightswimmer has a Prospector 15 that he paddles extremely well from a center mounted seat, like a traditional solo. I'm not sure if he pulled the gunnels in a touch or not.

Not dat it’ll do yer any good, but…

– Last Updated: Nov-25-09 10:47 PM EST –

In me wood canvas Chestnut Prospector ah' gots dis leather sling seat made by Tom Seavey of Azland Traditions dat allows me ta paddle Canadian-style in style. Very comfortabool but yer need open gunnels (or slotted in de right places) fer it ta attach.


http://outdoors.webshots.com/album/575673729CikNoV

FE

Those Pics of Your Garage…

– Last Updated: Nov-25-09 11:30 PM EST –

......had me drooling on the computer! Nice boats, and that IS an interesting kneeling contraption. WW

How does a flexible seat compare?
Interested as I mostly paddle kneeling from a solo position as my tandem partner is only five years old… and we’re fitting slotted gunwales this winter, so leather (or synthetic) would be an option: how does it compare in use?



Advantages / disadvantages when compared to a rigid thwart?

Beside lookin’ so classy in a woody…
ah’s really like de leather sling kneelin’ thwart (ah’ dun’t refer ta it as a “seat” per say since ah’ don’t fully set on it but jus’ rest me boney butt on it jus’ like a kneelin’ thwart or yer front part of a standard seat. Granted, thaar be a little bit more side ta side play in de sling than yer would git in a rigid thwart, yer kin tighten or loosin’ it up side ta side an’ front ta back ta soot yer paddlin’ style an’ coomfert. Ah’ git plenty o’ support fro’ it paddlin’ Canadian style (of course, wat else in a Chestnut Prospector) an’ yer kin’na beat it fer comfert. Yup, spent a good amount o’ wampum on it but Tom an’ his wife of Azland Traditions be fine craftsmen an’ real nice folks ta boot. Is it woyth it? Fer me - yup!



FE

correct position for solo
To answer your question on the correct position for solo paddling a canoe: The best position would be whatever location gives the correct trim. Basically, you want the boat to be pretty close to level in the water. If your weight is too far forward, the bow will be low, and you will not track (the boat will wander all over the place). If too far back, you will loose efficiency and the front end will get blown around excessively. The correct position is usually with your body weight 6 inches or so aft of midships. You have to consider all of the load in the boat. Sometimes just moving a water bottle will make a difference.

precisely
the way i see it, a prospector or other similar symmetric canoe is paddled comfortably from the ‘bow’ seat paddled backwards, and then, you move around the boat as needed depending on conditions such as wind, waves, and gear on board. i’ve used a foam pedestal at times when needed for prolonged near center paddling, but on trips it’s bare bones, the naked boat, albeit outfitted with thigh straps, with my portage sacks acting as trim and ballast, on down that great river. 12 days solo on the Bloodvein, a traditional shaped prospector paddled through almost every rapid from that bow seat, no problems, plenty of control. if you’re unladen, and working the boat for maximum agility, no question you have to be just behind center, thighs under the yoke. and this has been the case for playing, training and instructor testing but on trip, this is a rare requirement to require that kind of agility. you have to be running a very technical rapid and mighty confident that you can make those turns and maneuvers to necessitate being in that position in your canoe. a lot of risk assessment!