Camp 7!
Wow willow, there’s a blast from the past. I still have one of their bags & a down jacket that are 20+ years old and going strong. The good old days when gear was designed and made by people that use it…
clap clap clap
Take a bow!
How true. I have a Gerry sleeping bag from the 60’s. Its still fine.
vintage gear
– Last Updated: Dec-01-11 8:37 PM EST –
Remember when the only colors for outdoor gear were navy blue and forest green? Though early Gerry had cherry red and an odd leaf green for a while, Kelty and Camp 7 had royal blue and Snow Lion came out with rust around 1976 (how daring, everybody wanted it!)
Now stuff comes in all sorts of combos of fruity and fluorescent flavors. (Unless you buy it from Campmor in which case your choices are black, black or black.)
HIking boots were brown leather with red laces; socks, hats and mittens were itchy grey ragg wool and long johns were those soggy red Woolrich union suits with the drop seat. Throw on a camel tan chamois shirt (and matching wide-wale corduroy knickers) and a crusher hat, then sling your orange Camp Trails frame pack on your back and you were the epitome of 70's outdoors chic.
Geez, am I dating myself......
Gotta admit I don't miss all that heavy cotton and the itchy ragg.
Tried and true
I still use the Eddie Bauer goose down parka I bought on sale in the early 80’s. I only wear it now when the temps are in the single digits or below zero. I remember they trucked a bunch of stuff in to an old Sam’s Club warehouse store for a sale that lasted almost a week. I bought that parka at about half price. Still warm and toasty, but too warm if the temps get above plus 10 degrees and it’s not windy.
Speaking of 70’s stuff, I still have the Kelty backpack and frame I bought around 1974. Used it all around the Tetons, Yellowstone, Big Horns, Black Hills, and Glacier for years until about 10 years ago. However, my backpacking days are behind me now.
My wife still uses the minus 10 degree rated goose down mummy bag she bought from REI in 1965 when it was still a mostly unheard of mail order catalog serving its mountaineering co-op members. Still very warm and comfy.
I miss the designs
before Velcro became so popular. I will buy something else if an item has it, unless there is no other useful option.
So it’s not just me?
– Last Updated: Dec-02-11 12:55 PM EST –
Good to hear that someone else thinks Velcro is over-utilized on modern jackets. My first Gore-Tex jacket from "Banana Equipment" had Velcro cuff adjustments, but the flap pockets and zipper flap were fastened with snaps, as was the rain hood. I loved that jacket. Both similar jackets I've had since then have a couple of acres of Velcro on them, and simply pulling spare gloves out of a pocket is a sure way of ending up with a glove or two hanging from peculiar places (sometimes seemingly lost, only to be discovered later), and reaching into a pocket with anything except bare hands can't even be done. The coat even sticks to itself in peculiar ways that make it harder to handle. Also, half the time after walking in the woods the Velcro closures won't work anyway because they're covered with burrs. I agree with lots of the other comments about the flaws in modern jacket design too, but way too much Velcro is a pet peeve of mine.
great post!
applause
Amen on the curse of Velcro
Good point on that. I’ve lost painful hanks of my thick curly hair to velcro entanglement over the years (I know guys with beards hate the stuff up around their faces for the same reason) as well as damaging lightweight knit stuff like woolen tights and lycra items due to the hook part bonding to them.
Velcro is great for a lot of things, like attaching the deck to our Pakboat kayak, mounting black-out window covers inside the travel trailer and lashing odd shaped things to other odd shaped things. But on garments it can be a huge pain. I was “trapped” in a shell jacket in a White Mountains ice storm one climbing trip when water penetrated the velcro windflaps sealing the zipper and froze solid. Had to wrestle it off over my head.
OT, but the funniest use I ever ran across for Velcro was by a woman climber I used to know who put herself through grad school working as a stripper, the kind who puts on a real choreographed stage show at fancier nightclubs. She made her own very imaginative costumes (flamenco dancer, nurse, female cop) and made all the sleeves and parts of the outfits tear away with velcro so she could “rip” off her clothes on stage.
Another funny aspect of that same story: her live-in boyfriend was a rugby player who complained that, due to her sewing her costumes all over their apartment, he would sometimes turn up for games with loose sequins, rhinestones and glitter clinging to his clothes, gear and hair. A big hit in the locker room.
I’ve been trying to come up with a side career I could putter with so I can justify retiring in the next couple of years – maybe there’s a living to be made retrofitting outdoor clothing so it actually works! Velcro elimination overhauls!
informative posts!
It great to read such great posts instead of the more common argumentative posts and uninformed comments.
An issue I have with modern outdoor clothing is that at my height (6’1") I need XL size. All the cheaper brands have adapted to overweight Americans and make “XL” clothing XXL around the middle, with sleeve length and trunk length more like a L size.Even LL Bean is going down this path. I have to go to the expensive, trendy brands to get something that fits.
A second gripe is the short fly zipper length in most new pants-scratches the equipment.
Wind block clothing is a mixed blessing. Standing around or starting out on cold mornings its great. Start exercising or if the sun comes on strong and it turns into a sauna. The same attribute that blocks the wind keeps the heat in when you exercise hard. Be sure there is a full length front zipper-it will be used.
Dave
windblock
I’ve got a pair of Mountain Hardwear pants, at least 8 or 9 years old, that use the windbloc fleece in a clever way – just the leg fronts and a large patch over the seat. The rest of the fabric is stretch regular fleece so it breathes. Love these pants for any outdoor activity, especially canoeing and XC skiing – wish they still made the style. I think combining windblock with other more breathable fabrics can help mitigate the sauna problem.
Go with Down
Go with a down jacket over a synthetic as just like a down sleeping bag it will last you longer. My wife an I have the Patagonia donw sweaters and love them. They pack small and are very warm for their weight, plus they make a great pillow.
Camp 7
down bag, rated -15 F, purple, graduation present in 1973. Now, how old is my bag?
Snow Lion parka, rust, winter of 1975-76. Wish I still had that one.
Very pleased with Marmot Ama Dablam
– Last Updated: Jan-02-12 3:30 PM EST –
Well, I returned the 600 down Marmot Stockholm jacket and took delivery a couple of weeks ago of the 800 down Ama Dablam jacket. It cures every fault I listed in my third post above.
It has an integrated hood but it is of normal head size with a back adjustment along with side adjustments. It has a Napoleon exterior pocket, an integral stuff pocket, a two-way front zipper, and fleece-lined hand pockets and chin guard.
It's much lighter than my full service down parka. I've had it out in a couple of light rains and it sheds water well. The so-called angel wing shoulder technology makes paddle movements very easy -- no binding or tightness.
I wouldn't hesitate to use the jacket in my canoe in an appropriate climate condition even though I excluded that as a buying purpose. Of course, I would also carry fleece in my dry bag.
I bought a good Polartec Wind Pro jacket a month earlier, and I find that I am always using my new down jacket instead or my new fleece jacket for running around town and the woods. More comfy and silkily seductive. Sort of like Jean Harlow vs. Bette Davis. I haven't experienced any really cold weather yet here in CT, but I expect the puffy down will be cozier than the Wind Pro in low temps.
$130 on sale (regular $225).
I like it a lot.
Primaloft
Is a product with a pretty neat local history so we like it. But I don’t find it quite as warm as real down.
I have an ancient puffy down vest that is lightweight material, and after a few years of hard use I could entertain the cats well with it. Every time I put it on little white feathers came drifting out.
But it stayed very warm thru several years of shedding. So - hardy or not it worked.
Land’s End at least had down garments that were covered with stiffer material that doesn’t compress well. But it is very hardy - my down vest has taken me thru a couple winters of cleaning horse stalls and bounces back fine after the occasional wash.
Asymmetrical down insulates better
against cold, cruel reality.
I have a Sierra Designs down jacket purchased in '70 which is still functional for cold weather. Once it went through hot wash accidentally, and I thought it was a goner. The down came out in little, wet clumps. But I didn’t throw it away, and when it dried out, the down fluffed and functioned normally.
down…
I have only skimmed the other posts here so forgive me if I am repeating things here. I have to chime in though b/c there is a lot of misinformation about down.
An 800 fill down jacket will be ligher adn more compressible than an equivaliently warm 600 fill jacket. The compressibility issue is important for kayak camping since you can only fit so much stuff in a kayak hatch, especially an NDK hatch.
Down getting wet and not insulating is absolutely true…but same is true for snythetic. They don’t really insulate when wet either. Don’t believe the advertising hype. And…they key to being a good outdoorsman is keeping your stuff dry in the first place. so down is perfectly suitable for 99 percent of outdoor trips.
and buying an 800 fill power down jacket is not a waste of money. Fact is that the best quality and warmest down jackets are probably only going to be available with 800 fill power down…some exceptions, but if you want a really good down jacket it is going to have a higher fill power.
Baffled jackets will be warmer than sewn-through.
Brands like Western Mountaineering and Feathered Friends are expensive but worth the money. Period. Just like buying a good sleeping bag. There is definitely a difference.
agree with bowler1
– Last Updated: Jan-02-12 9:32 PM EST –
This latest crop of jackets and down sweaters from the better manufacturers is not just 'ilk'.
I measure ounces and packed size scrupulously as the lighter and smaller something is that is still very functional will result in more enjoyment afield for me. This more for climbing and wilderness backpack hunting than sea kayaking, but it is always something to consider.
If you have the cash, get 800 fill power or better and make sure the shell has a DWR.
As an outdoorman, you should always be careful to not let any insulative layer get wet. And, down does not do nearly so bad when wet as years of myth have taught us. Most similar 'fluffy' insulations will lose loft (more loft means more air spaces to trap air and that is what keeps you warm) when wet.
One thing about higher quality down I didn't see mentioned, is the fact that if it is carefully stored uncompressed, as any insulated product SHOULD be, higher quality down will last longer than poorer quality down.
Tangent: Western Mountaineering
I bought my first real canoe, a MR Royalex Explorer, at Western Mountaineering in San Jose, CA, in 1979.
I also took my first paddling instructional through them and the co-owner, Jeff Jones, which was a WW kayaking class, culminating in a run down the American River. That class convinced me of two things: I loved WW paddling but didn’t like kayaks. So, I decided to run my Explorer, by myself at first, down the California rivers.
Western Mountaineering was then a great paddling, rock climbing and general outdoors shop, just beginning their down sleeping bag operation on the second floor.
They had talks by well-known personalities such as Jim Shelander, who had just run the first open canoe down the Grand Canyon, a MR Explorer, and wonderful picture show lectures by the great mountain photographer, Galen Rowell.
caveats…
I will caveat my previous post to say that this is from my perspective as a backpacker where weight and volume are critical and you need the lightest and most compressible stuff you can carry and you need maximum warmth out of your jacket since you can’t carry a variety of different layers. For canoe camping this will not be as critical. For kayak camping the volume part is still pretty important. But even still I try to pack light for paddling. Your boat handles better in most cases.
It also depends on the temps you will encounter. I am referring to sub-freezing temps where you will be sitting still in camp for a long time.
Nothing will keep you warmer than a really good quality down jacket.
As far as lower fill power alternatives, Mountain Hardwear and North Face to make a few lower fill power optinons that are a good value.
Another thing to keep in mind about down…warmth is all about the loft. So those stupid looking puffy jackets are more than a fashion statement. The puff is what provides dead air and therefore insulation and warmth.
Matt
Puffy jackets
One problem I’ve found with down and puffy jackets is the noise factor. They are loud ! Arms swinging and body rubbing plus on bushes and trees etc. The will keep you warm though.
I have an L.L.Bean Penobscot Parker for over 20 years but ism’t made under that name anymore similar to this.
http://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/60849?feat=509711-GN3