"99.99% of my paddling is done in and out of very rocky terrain, and no I couldn’t get in and out of the vessel with it in the water without tipping it and hurting myself. "
Not for every one.
@Overstreet said:
"99.99% of my paddling is done in and out of very rocky terrain, and no I couldn’t get in and out of the vessel with it in the water without tipping it and hurting myself. "Not for every one.
No it’s not, you’re absolutely correct! If you love wood all the drawbacks I mentioned don’t matter but does the OP really love woodworking that much or does he think he can build himself a composite like boat for what plastic costs? Be honest with yourself. I wasn’t, and paid dearly for it.
One thing I forgot to mention is that wood is not as good of a deal as you might think because all the possible tools if you don’t already have them, as well as epoxy, varnish and sanding surfaces or material (of which you’ll need a LOT) aren’t cheap. You also have to consider if you want to add some composite to increase the stiffness and give slightly better abrasion resistance such as Kevlar but unfortunately eats into the weight benefits and costs you dearly. If you factor this into the price then you’re inching pretty close to the cost of a store bought composite.
I will say one thing: I bought a trailer for my wood/composite as it was a 2 person that you could put together in the center with bolts and at the end of the day it wasn’t the easiest to put on the roof either which brings me to the real reason people hate plastic, because it’s hard to put on the roof. Now for the most part I just did all my paddling off the back yard because indeed they were too heavy for me to want to bother putting on roof racks and I didn’t have to go anywhere.
The truth is that with the money you can save by staying with plastic, you can put it to good use buying a trailer. Then, it’s not as big of a deal to load your plastic boat(s) on the roof because with a trailer you can plop them down at knee height on the trailer, but now you have the durability and low cost of plastic. Furthermore, you can just leave them loaded on the trailer all the time, maybe throw a tarp on top when you’re not using them and leave them there so you don’t have to take the time to get set up onto the roof: you just hook up your trailer and go. That’s how I stumbled on the best of both worlds, never having to load them, never having to raise them, and the low cost and durability of plastic.
If you don’t …
Love wood
Like working with it…
Love using it…
Appreciate the beauty of it…
Like the weight savings…
Like pride of ownership…
Then plastic may serve serve your needs better…
Well, I don’t know about the cost thing. Right now it would cost around $1600 or so (not sure about shipping & tax) to build my kayak. That includes the glass and epoxy. You don’t need much in the way of tools to build a Pygmy & most will have those around for home maintenance. I don’t know about charging for your labor when you are building for yourself. It’s more of an evaluation of opportunity cost. Is a couple of hours here & there at a time worth $30 per hour when you would otherwise be watching TV? My evaluation is no but yours may be otherwise.
Nothing wrong with a RM kayak though. Same as for glass, Kevlar, and/or carbon. It’s all good just go paddle.
I picked up a kit for $400 on Craigslist that a guy never got around to building, It’s an Eric Schrade Merganser 17. Probably have $600 in it when done. It is tougher than my composite as I glassed inside and out, and weights a bit less too. I don’t baby it. Don’t need to. I can easily get in and out of it in the water. Much easier for me to repair than poly if I ever need to. Not many rocks where I paddle, but many logs, Oyster bars at low tide, and concrete boat ramps. Different strokes and paddles for different folks. I car top it easy enough. YMMV… Basically paddle the boat that pleases you. Poly is too heavy as far as I am concerned, I trailer sailboats and travel trailer only because it isn’t practical to put them on the cartop. When I can no longer lift my kayaks I’ll pick up a used boat trailer for $300-$400.
" no I couldn’t get in and out of the vessel with it in the water without tipping it and hurting myself. "
This has nothing to do with materials.
@Overstreet said:
" no I couldn’t get in and out of the vessel with it in the water without tipping it and hurting myself. "This has nothing to do with materials.
It has everything to do with materials and illustrates the beauty and reliability of plastic: you can launch with the craft mostly on land and do a “land launch” by paddling yourself into the water from land with you in it not having to take care at any stage of the game regardless of where you are, launch or beach. You can paddle carefree no matter what the bottom conditions are, and you can do this 100’s of times on a beach so covered with rocks that you cannot set foot anywhere without your foot touching or stepping over at least one or two in any place over the course of 15 years and still have Kayaks that are, at worst a bit scratched and scuffed up with moderate cosmetic wear, but after not receiving a single item of maintenance, not even being washed once, paddle just as good as new.
I could afford any kayak I wanted, even the high end composites, money is no object, but despite some advantages, I walked away from my wood craft, gave it back and went back to plastic. I didn’t even want to keep it. I just don’t enjoy working with wood to fix it and that will be an ongoing thing with this material type and I don’t like to use anything that I have to treat carefully like a China Doll when more durable and reliable options are available that are 100% maintenance free.
I am not saying OP should not go ahead with wood, but that it’s not all sunshine and rainbows and that the drawbacks are very real, the commitment to certain types of needed behavior, rules or maintenance very necessary, the ownership and paddling very different from basic plastic boats and in aggregate more serious than the plastic ones, especially if you aren’t fully cognizant of them ahead of time.
CA139 I agree that plastic is best, for you. Certainly there are many types of kayaking for which plastic is a poor choice. For me, light weight is the predominant consideration. I do have one beefy FG boat that can bounce off the occasional rock, but is 52 pounds and much heavier than I like. In the end, the drawbacks of composite construction are not particularly dire, except for rock gardeners and whitewater runners.
Re kayak weight in general, I’d add a few points to what’s been said above:
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It’s true that a kayak that is 25 pounds lighter will accelerate only slightly less quickly, since the overall weight of kayak plus paddler does not change much. However, once you talk about turning and maneuvering, the weight distribution comes into play. Mass moment of inertia (resistance to rotation) is an integrated sum of mass times distance squared from center of rotation. A boat that is twice as heavy (50 rather than 25 pounds) will have twice the rotational inertia in the water (if the weight distribution is the same). The hydrodynamic forces resisting rotation will be the same (if the boats are the same shape), but the overall resistance to rotation will be much higher due to this effect, and lighter boats will always be more responsive while maneuvering. This is also why a heavier boat is harder to rotate while it’s on your shoulder and you’re trying to get it on the roof rack. It seems to me plastic boats tend to have more material in the bow and stern due to production methods and to allay erosion damage, which would increase the effect - but I may be wrong about that.
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Many of my chosen paddling spots require a short to medium walk, sometimes down a steep hill, so a heavy kayak would not be good. I have zero interest in using a kayak cart.
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Also re trailers, not everyone has a spot for one - I live in a city and do not, nor do I have a hitch on my small car (which can rooftop two light kayaks easily). With a 32 pound boat, I can have all my gear in the boat and my vest, walk to the water with the boat on one shoulder and a paddle in the other hand and be on my way without any return trips, which is how I like to do it.
CA139 I both beach launch and launch from ramps. Like I said I don’t baby it. I do clean it though, I have three layers of S-glass keel strips over the E-glass on the ends. It doesn’t deform or oil can in the southern heat and sun like poly either. Much stiffer too. I’m sure you paddle what you like. I do.
I don’t knock poly. If I was going to bounce it off rocks I might own a beater out of poly. Even though it’s heavier than what I am willing to lift. I just don’t need or want it otherwise. Different paddling environments, styles, preferences, ascetics, and ages, impact what materials are perceived as best. This doesn’t invalidate your or my perspectives. It’s all a compromise just like hull shapes.
I love your perspectives and believe me, the lighter boats are definitely nicer to handle all round for sure. If I could pay more and just buy a boat that weighed next to nothing, was really stiff and indestructible to boot I would love to engage in that for sure!
Despite having paddled for nearly 15 years I literally knew nothing about Kayaking and took everything for granted. Well when I first had access I looked up a few things like maritime rules, right of way, crossing the channel and safety risks but that’s about it. Most of what I learned about Kayaks proper has been the last few months and I just was not prepared or knew that wood and composites, for the most part, don’t work for me. Everyone keeps telling me plastic can get damaged or can get warped but at least the Wildnerness systems designs, as we have used them in the capacity that violated all the possible rules for caring for a Kayak for nearly 15 years we only have significant superficial scratching and some, but not a lot of warping that is hardly noticeable. There’s something to be said for that kind of durability. I am sure if I used some kind of tool or weapon on my Kayaks I could certainly damage or destroy them but short of intentional vandalism I have done everything else (unwittingly I might add, I just didn’t know better but kept getting away with it) that looking back I am very impressed at that kind of durability!
Again I am not trying to trash wood or composite, far from it. Everyone that has a wood kayak seems to love theirs and I can see why so I wanted to offer a balanced counterpoint from someone for whom wood did not work out. Retrospectively I would probably be the last person who should own a wood kayak due to very, very rocky shores from which its used, having access to water from my house (no need for much carrying or putting on roof racks) and having children. The latter is a big issue too. If I really wanted to care for a wood or composite I could probably find a way in my heart of hearts but having to spend most of my time Kayaking on top of my wife and kids regarding that totally takes the fun away. Too many drawbacks. That said you can certainly own more than one and use them accordingly but I don’t have room for something I just won’t use at all.
Maybe someday, if I can find some areas that won’t annihilate these materials I might consider a composite fiberglass boat (cheap to repair by local shops) but plastic has worked out so well for me and I just wanted OP to have the counterpoint in order to make the most informed, and thus best decision possible for their needs.