skegs vs rudders…
Yanoer… I’m not qualified and remain largely confused here. We got skegs on our 600s because as demo boats they were so equipped, and well, we couldn’t make up our minds anyway. I have yet to figure out how to keep my 600 tracking straight in open water without lots of inefficient sweeps. With skeg down it’s great… but a rudder would do the same for me and likely be more versatile in conditions. But then… they’re ugly and you can’t convert to a foam bulkhead for the feet which sounds like a great idea. I have much to learn. Maybe a rudder has benefits I’m unaware of.
I’m keen to hear from you and Beachcamper and MikeT, as 400 owners, what you think of your boats as I’m still on the fence in the 400/600 debate.
size of paddler matters
in comparison to the Solstice the 400 turns easily. Don’t think it matters much with the Solstice, it’s not meant to turn.
10X
not sure of your reasoning for switching her out if she’s happy with the 600. Is she paddling faster than you? At 140lbs she’s a decent weight for it. My gut feeling is that in an even more efficient kayak (less effort at cruising speeds) she’ll leave you in the dust if that’s an issue. Women are inherently more stable in kayaks so if you’re unsteady in bouncy water and she isn’t,that’s life. I saw this dynamic with one couple, she was average sized, he was big and strong but stiff,both in early 60’s. He had crappy technique and she was a natural. He fought himself with everystroke and she used what she had more efficiently. I saw him consider spending $500 in paddles just to keep up. “you know, she’s simply more efficient and your technique needs work”.
re: 10x
No doubt she is more stable. She has good cadence and is reasonably strong, but–it’s me leaving her in the dust. I suppose if one of us is the natural (using the term loosely) it would be me. I have good reach and a knack for efficient technique. I’ll get focusing on my forward stroke and tracking and suddenly there’s 200 feet between us. We’d like to give her every advantage possible and research suggests she should do better with less boat. Thoughts of a 400 under me were also geared toward evening us out. But as has been pointed out–my mind is open to all the possibilities …and empty (!) (how did MikeT know that?)
quote was meant to be
a positive comment about the possibilities of being a beginner. I keep a copy of that quote in my day timer and read it often.
This has been such a fun thread; you should re-read your previuos posts - and as you go along see how more and more you’re catching the endless “figuring out the boat/outfitting the boat disease”.
I see minicell foam and an adhesive of your choice in the near future.
Enjoy.
Mike
That’s a great reason to get skegs.
What length paddle are you using? If it’s longer than 220cm, that may be contributing to your challenges of keeping the boat going straight without the skeg down. Longer paddles may contribute to a zig zag pattern while paddling.
I’ve only had my 1997 Caspian Sea since last summer and I also bought three canoes last summer, so I don’t have a lot of time in the Caspian Sea and I’ve never had it out in any challenging conditions except a little wind, so the other 400X paddlers would be able to tell you more about your boat than I could. I perceive it as a straight tracking and very stable boat.
The other suggestions to play around in the 600X some more to get more at ease in it are good ones. I’d expect the 600X to be more efficient (less effort to paddle) than the 400X, but I’ve never paddled a 600X, so I’m just guessing.
Go have some fun in that boat this weekend.
I test paddled a Solstice GTS and
it was way too hard tracking for me. I agree that the 400X turns easier than the Solstice.
I should remember to read
you did say that.
Just out of curiosity what kind/length of paddle does she have? I’ve never been a fast paddler, capable of it but never had the desire.
Basically, you either paddle with her, or you don’t.
Handicapping yourself really won’t work but making sure she’s in the optimum package helps. There are other reasons for the 10x, something other than her keeping up, better fit, slightly lighter kayak, lower foredeck, better thigh brace location, along those lines.
The 600 is a very efficient and slippery hull, true she’d put out a smidge less effort at normal 3mph paddling speeds but if you can’t slow down, the difference in her going to the 10X won’t allow her to keep up. If she was paddling a 65lb plastic boat that’s optimum for a 200lb paddler then yes, the 10x would make a huge difference but not enough between the 600 and 10x for her to match your effort if your comfortable effort is simply Xwatts above what she’s comfortable with. It doesn’t take much for .01mph difference in speed to seperate people.
That’s not to say the 10X isn’t appropriate for her., it may well be ‘better’.
My $.02 is to paddle WITH her when that’s what you’re doing and save the efforts for maneuvering around. Which is a good incentive to develop bracing/turning skills so your paddling isn’t all in a straight line,straight line paddling will seperate people immediately if can’t slow down or speed up. But if the fast person zig zags and goes in circles they can keep up just fine. Think of a puppy on a leash, they never go in a straight line.
Solstice was my first glass boat
after I took rolling classes and spent more time paddling in waves it just felt not quite right, those sharp ends didn’t have much buoyancy but lots of edges for waves to grab, if you want to do anything except going in a straightline it’s work. The part that’s funny is the 400 has a long waterline and tracks fine, it’s like the waterline provides the tracking as opposed to sharp edges on the ends.
paddle lengths currently…
hers: 210, mine 220. We’ve tried 230 which was definitely too long. We’re both fairly high angle paddlers–a habit formed in the canoe I suppose. We’re using Accent Zephyrs–decent foam filled design which should be fine for us until we get better at it. I see your point re tracking difficulties with a longer paddle. I’m hopeful that any tracking problems now are more than likely operator error rather than boat-related.
that’s a good point…
about speed differences. It makes sense that the speed difference between the 600x and 10x would not likely be large enough to compensate for our paddling difference. OTOH, every little bit helps and if the 10x fits better she may develop better technique. Reply above to Yanoer describes our paddles. I think at this point I should try to stay behind her more in order to keep us together or as you say practice my maneuvering by turning back. When I’m in front I never know where she is because I’m too nervous to twist myself around far enough in the boat to look directly behind me!
nice paddles
– Last Updated: Jun-28-08 8:48 PM EST –
yep, you guys have all the nice stuff,,you have more muscle and are using it. No two ways around it,,learn to zig-zag more, go slower, go in circles but if you want to paddle WITH, you paddle with. Honestly maneuvering is a skill that will become much more important than simply going in a straight line.
I've been able to get to someone who capsized more quickly than others in a group simply because I was in a maneuverable boat and could maneuver it better even though I was 100' away and they were 50' away.
Something I did to keep pace with slower paddlers was to slowwwwww my cadence down to make EACH stroke perfect, or reduce the time the blade was working in the water to a very small portion after immersion letting the blade drag to release.
If you're going for some effort that feels right to you,,you're going to leave her and paddle alone. Which may be ok but not if you don't feel comfortable twisting around,,hey, that's something to practice, next time you're ahead twist your torso around as much as you can and do a sculling brace on the side that you're twisted to provide support. There you go,,paddle 50' twist,,,brace, scull,,she catches up and you repeat on the other side, paddle, twist, brace, scull. It's a skill you need to develop anyway.