Maneuverability of 400X vs 600X?
To me, without rudder, the Caspian Sea/400X seems to track hard and require quite a bit of effort to lean the boat for anything resembling a quick turn (relative to my composite Sea Lion). I don’t find it to be much fun for hugging an irregular shorline or maeuvering in close quarters. My Caspian Sea doesn’t have thigh braces and I haven’t added any paddling to improve contact with the boat for better control in leaned turns. I haven’t paddled a Caspian Sea/400X with a rudder.
Is the 600X more or less maneuverable than the 400X?
I’m 5’6" and 155 lbs. I’ve also considered the 10X because it’s as narrow as the 600X, but as short as the 400X. I assume that the 10X would be less stable, but quicker and more efficient for someone my size than the 400X. I probably would not like the shorter cockpit opening on the 10X. The 400X seems extremely stable to me. I seldom carry more than 10 or 15 lbs of water and gear on my day paddles and have never kayak or canoe camped.
Your preferences indicate a 600
Your description of use and goals indicate that you would be better served by the QCC600. You seem to put priority on speed when you said “outrun a storm.” The conditions you plan to paddle are also relatively tame so even a beginner should adapt quickly to the 600’s speedier profile. I also think the 600’s capabilities will grow with you as your skills improve.
I think anybody comparing the 600 to the 400 should make the 600 the default choice and then ask themselves what characteristics the 400 has that justify it choosing it over the 600.
At 200 you’d find a 700 more stable…
… than a 600. 700 would feel smoother and more well mannered to you and a 600 slightly more “sporty” or high strung.
At the original poster’s weight initial stability should be pretty close between 600/700 - but the 700’s longer waterplane area will still make it a smoother/steadier ride.
Speed? Non-issue between the two unless you’ve got hammer down and holding speeds between S/L 1.0 to 1.5 steadily for an hour or more where some difference may emerge - and which is faster depends on what average speed is desired and paddler power. Both are fast enough otherwise.
The more important thing is how good they both are for all around use. These are not specialized “racing” hulls. They are excellent at a lot of things and still remarkably efficient.
I find the deck differences on the 700 make for a more comfortable cockpit for me (5’9" with largish thighs). The flatter rear deck is also useful (they should modify the 600!).
I’ve paddled 700, 600, and 500 - but not 400 so I can’t comment on 400 from a user perspective. I’m sure it’s nice and all, but I really don’t have use (except maybe as a loaner for beginners) for something so wide and deep - and I think these would be liabilities on 15 mile paddles (if moving and not lily dipping) as they impact technique/form.
Long story short - 400 and 600 do not belong on the same short list. Even thought they overlap in recommended load capacities, they are in different leagues otherwise.
If a 600/700 is a bit of a handful at first, it won’t be in 2-3 months. In a year it will be very solid, and if you get a fair amount of seat time, play in wakes and waves to see what they’ll do for you if you let them (ie - babysit your ass) and/or get the roll down they’re stable like a dock.
Too damn stable. the QCC I want is a 19’x19" Q900, with LOW rear deck, multisport style cockpit, and interchangeable over (for river) and under stern (for ocean) rudders with gas pedal controls.
Usually we have this type of
frank, open and honest exchange of views with those few, deluded individuals who are not yet members of the QCC coven.
Alan, I’ve read all your posts carefully. And you have not yet shared with us: your paddling skill set, previuos outdoor experience, athleticism, physical fitness level, desire to grow/not grow into other paddling goals, your comfort with being on/in the water, and you willingness to submit youself/or not to the endless paddling learning curve.
So… people in good faith have been attempting to respond to you without some potentially critical pieces of your puzzle.
And even if, on the odd change, you might the the troll under the bridge, it’s been great to have this discussion with my fellow QCC coven members - we appear to be a pretty lively bunch!
Mike
I’m not a troll
I am fairly new to kayaking but have lots of on-water experience. I grew up fishing in canoes, flat bottomed skiffs and pirogues (a cross between a canoe and a kayak) in Louisiana. I’ve taken some kayaking lessons and currently have a 9 ft plastic Mainstream Durango.I also have a 28 ft Hunter sailboat and have been sailing for about 12 years. I think I am moderately to quite fit and I tend to be singleminded about what I do. My goal in kayaking is both for fitness and to explore the water from a different perspective than I have previously; I want to tour coastal SW Florida mostly to see the wildlife and just to be outside.
Alan
SW Coast
I do plenty of kayaking along the coastal gulf and specifically the E Glades coastal area. I use a 400 and my paddling involves overnight to weeklong trips ranging from 15-20 miles a day. The 400 is very efficient even when full of gear. It was designed to haul quite a bit of weight I have found.
The 400 is stable when loaded and very forgiving in rough seas. It does track arrow straight and not as much fun on twisty creeks as you would think from it’s length. Is it fast? It’s pretty fast for it’s length but the 600 is faster. I think both are good choices for our coastal areas. If you want to gawk at wildlife, take pictures and fish your best bet is the 400. If you want to out run a storm…get a powerboat.
Thanks for the additional info
I have paddled both the 400 and the 700; but not the 600 - my butt is too big.
My subjective, personal opinion, given the additional information that you have just shared, is that you will be ultimately much happier with either a 600 or a 700 (depending on gear load, given your body weight) - arguments for either boat already made by others. I initially called QCC and the 400 was recommended to me; it’s a great paddling boat, but would not have been the right boat for my situation and ultimate paddling goals.
Took JackL’s advice and have never looked back - the 700 was definitely the boat for me. Now if QCC would make a 600 with “full-figured” cockpit I might just have to buy one, and thus would be spending the rest of my married life sleeping in our boat house.
Mike
600!
The most recent updated version of the Q600 has a front deck profile similar to the 700. That means more room for your knees and thighs. (Removing the seat pad and going with a back band will also help in that dept.)
If you want to cover 15 miles in an afternoon, the 600 is the boat for you. If you are not immediately comfortable with the stability, you will be by the end of your first 15 mile trip (probably much sooner). A taller / larger paddler might take more time to feel comfortable. If you were carrying gear for camping or if you were racing, I'd recommend the 700. For day trips in flat water, the 600 will be plenty of boat -- and, unless you are racing, there will be no significant speed/ efficiency difference compared to the 700.
yet more thoughts
on the matter.
http://www.paddling.net/message/showThread.html?fid=advice&tid=893931
Mike
this discussion was really great
and at the end of the day, please let us know how it has all worked out for you.
Mike
I think Q400 for me
I like it because it is shorter, but it will have a good motor. It has plenty of storage and mostly I have not convinced myself of the need for a longer boat. The change if made will come from within although I appreciate the advice. If I change then you all can say “I told you so” just my stubborness.
Paddlin’ on
Richard
it feels like a long boat
you know how the Gulfstream feels like it’s 14’ long? The QCC feels like it’s 17-18’ long compared to kayaks with long bow and stern overhangs.
Probably wouldn’t like it on twisty
rivers. Requires quite a lean to turn sharply.
QCC 400X
one sweet boat. Get it in glass without the rudder or skag. Weighs only 48 lbs.
Float 49
I just ordered a QCC Q400X
Thanks to everyone who gave their opinion/advice. I also spoke to Steve at QCC and finally decided on the 400X. I’m still keeping the 600 in mind-I suspect my wife may want the 400 after a bit. But I’m very excited and grateful for all your responses.
I’ll post a review once it arrives.
Alan