QCC 700 vs. Valley Aquanaut???

mine keep changing
rough conditions are… higher waves, more chop, sharper eddy line, more current, or more wind…than the last time I met rough conditions and survived the challenge with the bottom of my boat staying the bottom and not becoming the top.



When I started two years ago, one foot waves were “rough” conditions. Now I like 3-4 footers with white caps blowing off the top. I like bashing into them upwind with the spray hitting me and surfing them down wind for the rush of speed.



Bill

Conditions
In some ways, conditions can be anything that is not flat, smooth, or still water.



When referring to ‘conditions’ I am usually thinking of; sharp short period beam or quatering seas that can be anywhere from 2 to 6 or so feet, strong following seas with some dimension (lumpiness), confused or ‘snotty’ seas, etc…



Then there are the 30+ knot gusts I’ve paddled - but that’s just plain stupid ;- )

Epic Endurance 18
is a very fast boat.



Of course there is always the Valley Rapier :wink:

conditions
I was thinking more like this:



http://www.mavsurfer.com/

depends on what you want
My friends who race seem to opt for a race-line hull,e.g. QCC or Epic, but my Outer Island seems just as fast (paddler drives the differences) until you get into the K1 racing boats. I like to go fast, but also am working the GP roll progression. Anyway, you might want to think about an OI–it’s the perfect day trip complement to the Aquanaut.

Seconding the OI
Having an Aquanaut, if I wanted a faster sea kayak in which I could easily do more than go straight fast, I would get an OI.



It is a very good boat for practicing Greenland manuevers. The OI rolls even easier than the Aquanaut and is lower decked fore and aft.



If I had the resources (money/room) for another over 17.5’ boat, it would either be an OI or a Nordkapp LV.

I’ll take a look at it…
I have heard great things about the OI in the past. It is supposed to have a very loyal following as I understand. I think I would like its Greenland-inspired design perhaps better than that of the QCC.



I wonder how they compare as far as speed. I have heard the OI is pretty fast, but I would doubt it is faster than the QCC just as a gut feeling. My understanding is that the QCC and Epic Endurance are about the fastest thing out there now.



Matt

OI and QCC
I’d imagine that if you put the same paddler in a QCC and an OI, the paddler that could max out the hull speed of each boat would be faster in the QCC but not by much. OTOH, paddling within the max hull speed, which most of us do most of the time, I doubt that there would be much difference at a constant effort. Plus (sorry) QCC boats are ugly and rolling is fun. Unless you were really into racing (and then why not a K1, I doubt you’d find much difference as a practical matter. Be curioius to hear when you have a chance to paddle both. I’ve paddled the QCC, and like it on flat water, but prefer the OI.


Kayak Resistance Chart
I have owned or paddled some of the boats being discussed and been blown out of the water by better paddlers paddling a Romany (not exactly a known speed demon) which made me realize how important good technique and conditioning is compared to the hull design.



If narrowing it down to a hull’s known speed specifiacations are necessary, you will find some of those hulls on this list -

http://www.kayakshops.com/kayak_speed.htm



The Riot Aura which use to be called the Sultan and is on the above list is another fast boat.

http://www.riotkayaks.com/kayaks/adventure/html/aura.asp

Paddled QCC/OI side by side 17 miles
Not racing, and not super fit or regular long distance paddlers. The OI seemed to hold its own OK. Surprisingly easily first 5 miles or so, then I’m not so sure. OI paddler hadn’t done this paddle before (I’d done it 6-8 times) and may not have been setting a pace for 2-3x his usual distances. Hard to tell as he paddles so smooth and easy.



Took us about 45 minutes more than my usual loop times overall as OI paddler had outfitting issues requiring a few stops (this is usually a nonstop fitness type paddle for me in QCC) - and related back issues by 14 miles - and probably sick of ticking off the miles a bit before that but he was too nice to say so (and somewhat pointless anyway as it’s a loop).



I’ve only paddled and OI briefly on a flat water lake. It’s no dog - cruised along well - but didn’t feel particularly speedy either relative the QCC 700 I’m used to. OI is fishform and feels fatter up front. This gives the QCC an edge for stroke mechanics even if you don’t cruise fast enough to benefit from the longer waterline. Little things matter more over thousands of strokes. OI doesn’t seem particularly LV to me either - also due to fishform shape. Deck is only SLIGHTLY lower than QCC 700 (my minimal 1/2" thigh pads compensate) and looks much wider from the cockpit. Still, it’s a very nice kayak. Not much out there commercially that I like better for all around mix of speed, manners and rolling. Not enough to sell my QCC to get one though as my modifications have given me a lot of OI or Brit benefits while keeping QCC hull performance. ROCK!



OI paddler will likely chime in about it for speed and distance and what he’s done with outfitting since.



If I could only have one kayak right now - designed by someone else - it would probably be a Njord by Björn Thomassen, which is sort of like a QCC meets OI hybrid in many ways, but narrower, and lower volume:



http://www.thomassondesign.com/edoc/enjord.php



Now all I have to do is talk QCC into licensing the design, doing custom bulkhead placements, and using VCP or KajakSport hatches. Hmm, back to my other plans…

Significant differences?

– Last Updated: Jul-27-06 10:33 AM EST –

Looking at drag figures among sea kayaks, there is no significant difference (less then a half pound) among boats at 4 knots (4.6 mph). Sea Kayaker figures give the drag at 4 knots for an Epic Endurance 18 at 3.55 pounds and for the Necky Chatham 16 at 3.89 pounds.

Notable differences in drag occur at 4.5 knots (5.17 mph) and above. By 5 knots (5.75 mph)the differences are truly significant - Endurance 18 at 6.47 v Chatham 16 at 8.45 pounds. BTW for the Valley Aquanaut, the drag at 5 knots is 7.42 pounds. (For reference the Nordkapp and P&H Quest each came up at 8.04 pounds of drag at 5 knots)

The Epic Endurance 18 is undisputedly one of the fastest sea kayaks in regular production. The Necky Chatham 16 is considered pokey - probably similar to a Romany. I'm guessing an OI is somewhere between the Aquanaut and the Epic Endurance 18 in drag at and above 5 knots.
(I'm using the Epic Endurance figures because I don't have the Q700 ones and I think the QCC boat is likely to be pretty close to the Epic in drag.)

All that being said, your Aquanaut is faster than the average sea kayak. Paddle boats and see how they feel. I could feel the difference in speed between the NDK Explorer and Valley Aquanaut before anyone had published the figures, and according to SK figures the differences in drag appear minor. My friend's OI feels faster than my Aquanaut, but mostly it has a different personality. I think the OI is a very impressive boat.

Of course you could be 1st on the block
With one of these.



http://tinyurl.com/jdlgg



Thinking outside of the box?

Greyak on the Njord
Often while in my QCC700 I’ve wondered what the 700 would be like with a low back deck…now I know and have another boat to target…that same ‘want’ is one reason I ordered a Valley Q-boat…wanting a boat that could easily roll with laybacks, still have a ‘front’ end large enough for my camping kit, be available in an extremely light layup, and have the length for a decent speed…in another month or two I’ll know if the q-boat satisfies these goals…if not then I’ll study the Njord more thoroughly.

Greyak
just noticed at the Njord website that you can order PLANS!!! by the looks of the kayak in the balanced brace I thought it was a composite boat I could simply click and order…I dont need another addiction of building kayak frames and skinning boats, that’s Peter Strands job.

I have an idea
Since Greyak is responsible for bringing this boat up he might have to build one for you :wink:

Which version 700 do you have?
1st - with centered cockpit.

2nd - with cockpit 8" aft of center

3rd - with cockpit 5" aft of center



Mines 2nd gen - and I moved the seat 3" forward. Layback is a LOT better. It’s still nothing like a good SOF that you can lay down and nap on - but better than a Pintail was for me. Still not the best boat to work on a wide range of rolls - but it sure made it easy to do the basic stuff.



It also improved trim and maneuverability (making it same as a gen 3). Contact with thigh braces is better too (also really helps rolls) as they are back from my knees more (might not for tall folks). Getting in/out is a little more OC/G-style now though.



Doing this in a current version might alter trim and handling too much - I have no way to say. With mine it was a really low risk modification as I was just moving the seat to where it sits in the latest 700s.



All stuff I’ve posted before - repeated FWIW.