question about rolling a touring kayak

hip snap
I found the biggest differences for rolling two different kinds of boats is in the hip snap. “Harder” to roll boats need a stronger snap, and easy rolling soft chines.

Thanks, all
I will check out the Dubsides video or DVD. Never heard of it before. I am amazed to find out my premise was totally incorrect, about a heavier boat being harder to roll. See? That’s why I ask what I think are dumb questions. Sometimes they’re not.



I may have to pretty much teach myself as I don’t know of any good classes around here until mid-summer and I really can’t travel right now. But I am signed up for a class in August and have already been in touch with the instructor about getting some one-on-one rolling lessons.



I do agree that proper fit (outfitting?) is important. When I was trying to roll my ww kayak last year, I realized at some point that my hip snap wasn’t working because the fit just wasn’t tight enough. I was “snapping” into nothing if you know what I mean… just shifting myself around in the kayak. The long kayaks I’m looking at now should have a more snug fit and I can always add more padding. I’ve given up on whitewater though.



Sorry but I still don’t understand about “mixing variables”. I gave the length and weight (and other info) of both kayaks I’m comparing. I could understand it if I gave (for example) the weight of one and length of the other and said “now compare them” but I didn’t. They are different weights/lengths because, well, variables vary. That’s why they’re called variables. If both were the same there would be nothing to compare. Know what I mean? Not trying to be picky here, but I still don’t understand what that comment means. What did I say wrong?

hey sherman
if you’re not using a greenland paddle, also get jay babina’s first roll video so you can learn the extended paddle roll with a euro paddle.

I’ve got the instructions
to MAKE a Greenland paddle. Gonna try it… we shall see…

Meanwhile I will do as you have suggested.

Are most people using a slash roll
rather than c to c? Some of my ww kayaks allow me to get in the c to c starting position very easily, but I prefer a slash roll once I get it going after a period of non-use. I would think the slash roll is likely to work better with sea kayaks.

Is this right?
I want Dubsides video if using a Greenland paddle, and Jay Babina’s (?) if using a Euro paddle?



Just making sure I get the right thing… or should I consider both?


Roll videos
I’m a GP roller. Here’s my take.



Dubside is great for side sculling and all the Greenland style rolls. I don’t think his video is geared toward the absolute beginner though. I believe he assumes you have a first roll.



If you could only buy one video to learn to hit your first rolls, I would buy Jay Babina’s First Roll. If you can buy two, I would also buy EJ’s Rolling and Bracing. A little later, and especially if you want to do additional G rolls, I would buy Dubside. Also a little later, and especially if you are using a Euro paddle, and/or you want to teach people who use the euro paddle, beyond that first extended paddle sweep roll, I like The Kayak Roll (Ford, I think). Excellent troubleshooting info in that vid.



Paul S.

agree with this
Since you’re going to learn with an EP, get Jay’s and Kent’s videos and watch them both. They are quite similar, but Jay’s is all with the paddle extended, so start there with respect to practice.



When you gotten a role or sorts, EJ’s rolling and bracing is very good at teaching the same principles/movements, but from a slightly different perspective. And Dubside will introduce you to the world of Greenland rolling, which takes rolling from fear “will I miss my roll” to fun “can I get my offside norsaq roll working.”

Rear deck height.

– Last Updated: May-04-07 12:17 AM EST –

Actually, if you want to do lay back rolls, the most important boat-factor is whether you can lay all the way back on the rear deck, ideally with your head actually touching the rear deck. If there's room in the thigh area, you can also lift your butt off the seat to achieve this if you need to.

I think that's the single biggest boat-factor in Greenland style rolling.

If you want to do hand rolls, the boat volume will be a factor. Other things being equal, smaller volume, easier to hand roll, because the boat sits lower in the water.

I agree with others though, effect of boat weight would be negligible. For full size paddle roll, within reason, same with volume. I rolled a Tempest 180 and Tempest 170 side by side last Sunday at a demo day. I was curious because I used to own a T180 and at the time felt it's size was maybe holding me back from side sculling well, and maybe from doing other G rolls. Now, using the paddle I could do everything in the 180 as well as I could in the 170, including side sculling. I could not norsaq roll the 180. Almost, but not quite.

Paul S.

It doesn’t matter.
Therer’s the answer you ultimately asked for. And it’s true.



Buy the boat that you like for whatever reasons. Once you learn skills, you can roll any boat easily. You may not be able to do certain trick or advanced rolls like a handroll or some of the Greenland advanced rolls, but to roll up from a capsize, don’t worry about it.

Rolling
If you have a bomb proof roll it dont matter.

My expedition sea kayak is 6.1m with hard chines. I have no problems rolling my Polar Bear and my work boat a Tempest 170