thanks everyone!
Obviously there is no perfect answer to this grim scenario.
I was looking for ideas, not solutions.
I think there are a lot of good ideas in the responses that people gave. Having rescue training, first aid training, CPR certification, etc. is obviously worthwhile and necessary.
What you can do with it while on the water is not so sure until we test it.
I recently read that 15% of diabetics go into a diabetic coma sometime in their life. Given the number of paddlers who are diabetic, I think it is something worth talking about in my paddling circle. Maybe yours too.
This is not entirely the case.
“in the US, where people are more squeamish”
This is not entirely the case.
It has been shown that most lay people with compressions do not do them fast enough or with as much pressure (depth) as is needed.
When one stops compressions to do breaths it takes 4, 5, possibly six compressions to get the blood moving again. If it takes that many compressions to get the blood moving when the compressions are done correctly think how many it takes when the compressions are done too slowly and with not enough force. Another thought is that with the body shut down (they are dead) the oxy that is in the blood is not being used up and that it is more important to get the blood moving and continue to move than to add more oxy.
I found out
that there are several paddlers I would welcome being on the water with:
Nate Hanson
Brian Nystrom
and Survivor
jokes and quips about the nicer kayak aside, these three people had the most realistic assessments and therefore the best chances for a good outcome.
talk about leadership.
These people have it.
the talk
Hi Rusty… 
That’s a really tough situation, but what I’m seeing is that you would be miles ahead just by knowing that the other paddler was a diabetic. Just asking a couple of questions before launching never hurts. I recently found out that someone I’ve known for several years is now diabetic.
update to the scenario update
Not only is he in the circus as the world’s smallest man, he is the world’s smallest man with gills.
bump
It sounds like boring work but I second what bnystrom recommends. I’ve only gotten out to do a fraction of the emergency procedures that he recommends, but it really can be fun and a change of pace. And the pool is really no substitute for open water or rough water settings. Pick a decent warm day for the first go if you can; it’ll encourage you.
Chances are if you get out in conditions that eventually you’ll have to perform a rescue, self-rescue or tow. It’s nice to have that moment of familiarity when things go wrong.
Any on-water leadership ability…
…that I may posses is due to the generous mentoring and training of a lot of terrific and dedicated people in (or formerly in) the North Shore Paddler’s Network. The training I received and subsequently helped to teach was absolutely invaluable and also a heck of a lot of fun. There is nothing like practical on-water training under real conditions to expand one’s perspective on what really can happen out there.
As crazy as it may sound, I had a great time playing the role we referred to as a “tea bag”, repeatedly capsizing, swimming and being rescued by others, while assuming different scenarios from “panicked, unskilled beginner” through “highly experienced, just hold my boat and I’ll reenter in a flash”, to “injured/incapacitated” and “unconscious”. Seeing others struggle to deal with these situations is very illuminating. Spending hours in 40 degree water also teaches you a lot about what works and what doesn’t, clothing and gear-wise and creates a deep respect for the dangers of cold water.
Although their “trip leader” training program was shelved several years ago due to a change in the club’s philosophy, I hear that they’re doing similar skills training again, although all their trips are CAM-based now. Knowledge of trip planning, group management, leadership, emergency management, rescue skills and so on are extremely useful, whether trips have formal leadership or not, and I’m glad to hear that they’re teaching some of this again.
For anyone in the greater Boston area, I highly recommend the club. http://www.nspn.org
My source
I’ll add that in addition to great groups like NSPN, there is great leadership training available through the British Canoe Union. Even the basic paddler training involves thinking about scenarios and how you’ll prepare for them - realistic rescue work - real world skills, not just calm-water fluff. It’s challenging stuff and very rewarding.
For really focused leader training, their (relatively) new 4 star award is specifically a leadership award, and deals much more with group management, rescue management, and situational awareness than with the actual personal skills (which are a pre-requisite).
I know the BCU gets brushed off by some circles as elite, or overly technical. Personally, however, I’ve really appreciated the thorough approach the BCU trainings offer. You really cover everything soup to nuts, and feel prepared for what might happen when paddling in the conditions that your training covered. As beginning paddlers there is a lot that we don’t know we don’t know. (Rumsfeld’s famous “unknown unknowns”). Having a set curriculum of skills is a great way to eliminate a lot of those dangerous areas of ignorance, IMO, and is a good way to round off a patchwork of instruction you may have had from friends, paddle clubs, or various professional instructors.
Glucagon is not sugar
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glucagon
It’s effectivness depends on what’s in the diabetics liver.
If you are planing to use it on someone you ought to get trained ahead of time.
EMT’s doing emergency treatment of diabetics suffering from low blood sugar use a glucose drip rather than glucagon.
Frosting on the gums and/or under the tounge is as close as you or I are likely to get. Better yet is to catch it before the diabetic passes out. Then all you have to do is feed us.
Another reason to carry a PLB
– Last Updated: Sep-23-10 4:14 PM EST –
Because I don't see even a strong paddler with good rescue skills having much more than a slim chance of getting that guy to shore, let alone alive.
Good old Bob Burnett
I don’t know, sounds kinda fun to me
My scuba rescue certification course was the most fun scuba course I have taken, and also the hardest work. Having to surface-swim dragging guys well over 200 pounds plus their equipment, and then having to haul them up onto a dock took it out of me, but it was fun and interesting, and I think advanced kayak water rescue work would be just as challenging and fun, if not moreso. This thread is making me want to enroll in a class.
keep trying on VHF
"For whatever reason your cell phone and VHF do not work".
This kind of scenario is exactly why I never go out without my VHF fully charged and attached to my PFD. I have a waterproof VHF but also carry it in plastic dry-case that allows one-hand operation, just in case the water-proofing ever fails.
This was a good discussion. It brings out that the best answer is, make sure your VHF works and you know how to use it. You cannot deal with this situation alone and need to get trained rescue personnel as soon as possible. Get his head out of the water and supported as best you can, go to channel 16, and keep calling mayday.
the value of rescue scenarios
and practice can’t be underestimated.
I am glad BNystrom and Nate Hanson both came forward w. thoughtful responses based on real time knowledge and continued practice.
It’s dismaying to hear some paddlers (not speaking of anyone in this thread, but what was said to or around me) say they’ve watched rescues on videos or YouTube, etc. but never done one themselves, much less a few variants.
Many are relying on secondhand knowledge and gadgets, or technology, instead of knowhow and practice.
It is important to play the rescuee in a number of different roles, as well as the rescuer(s). It can be great fun to be a “teabag”. I’m in demand being small, light and supple to boot LOL small. But I’ve had to rescue some big dudes and while that means improved technique, it also means more confidence to hold up by end of the deal when paddling w. a partner or in a group.
On a different note, it’s good to time rescues, including towing scenarios. People who think they have it down find out they need several minutes - or multiple tries - to effect, say, a garden variety T-rescue that a more competent pair can do in barely a minute. It takes regular practice to keep it moving quickly - esp. important in cold water, but also where there is imminent danger from rocks, other vessels, etc.
Practice not only exposes paddlers to new techniques (the heel hook for example, which was virtually unknown 5 years ago) but gives everyone a cold dose of reality as to what is really doable in live water, esp. active water.
Nate, I don’t find the BCU elitist. I’m open to learning in the BCU models - and the ACA practices are not radically different.
One session with a BCU paddler like Bonnie Perry of Minnesota, Jennifer Kleck of Cali, or Kelly Blades right here in Michigan is worth hours spent watching youTube vids. It is hard to convey that to people who have closed minds and perhaps an overestimation of their own skills.
Structure is not an inherently bad thing. It’s what we, the participants, make it.
VHF
When paddling in the Apostles or closer to home on Lake Michigan, I found that my chances of receiving a response when hailing on VHF are about 50/50.
I can’t put too much faith on those odds.
It’s just another tool in the box.
Bob for sure
I learned a lot from him, but even more from the team that grew up around him, specifically Scott Camlin, Rick Crangle, Keith Attenborough, John Leonard and Adam Bolonsky. That was one incredible crew!
3 people minimum in conditions NM
ditto
True Sea Kayaking Incident
I was recently sent this link documenting a sea kayaking incident that occurred this past summer. The incident report would make for a great chapter in a follow-on book to “Deep Trouble”.
This was a group of experienced and skilled paddlers from the Netherlands. Several of which are top instructors. On the day in question they paddled just as a group of friends out for some skills training. They obviously got more rescue training than they ever anticipated. Some of the conclusions the participants draw should give most of use pause.
http://www.seakayaker.nl/TMP/ReportSeaKayakIncidentNoorderhaaks13June2010.pdf
Water temperature…
Many interesting ideas above, but noting where you paddle (Great Lakes) one huge parameter will be water temperature. If it is summer and the person is in a dry suit, you may have a good bit of time to use a wet option like towing them in the water. If it is fall and they went out pushing their luck a little, like just basic neoprene and a splash top because the day warm, you are probably going to be SOL unless you can get a hand on their boat to do a raft because the evening temperature will be dropping fast and hypothermia may kill them before you can get them to shore if they stay in the water.
One non-sequitor - your profile lists recent events using the old BCU system names, like the CST rather than the FSRT and 3 Star without a 2 star or canoe star. Is your profile a little out of date or have you found a way to hook up with pre-change BCU courses since 2008?