with what folks are saying. The folks (with more experience) are offering a perspective. One that you are not in the position to appreciate yet (I am not getting uppity. Just stating a general truth that will become more apparent later on as you head out into more challenging conditions). Just about any gear will work on flat water. It's in conditions, when they may backfire and hurt rather than help. If the availability of gear gets into your brain to take on conditions that your skills and endurance are not ready to handle, then that gear (or reliance on such) will lead you to trouble. This is the "minefield."
Get on the water and practice. This will tell you more than anything.
...but I'll mention it just to be sure. A stirrup is meant to be used WITH a paddle float rescue or an assisted rescue. Without the support of one or the other, a stirrup becomes nothing but a means of capsizing your boat really quickly.
Also, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the commentson this subject as simple "opinions", since some of us have done a lot of rescue training and have performed more than a few real rescues in conditions. Our views are based on experience, not conjecture.
As with many activities, there are plenty of well-intentioned, but poorly conceived/designed products on the kayak market. Not all of them deserve a place in your gear bag.
Thanks Brian I always learn something important when reading your posts. For those of you who don’t know, Brian is a sage on this board. He and his club go out in real conditions to work on rescues, a big difference from the calm waters of the average rescue class.
Wow, that’s enough vindication for me! I will disavow the few rescues I’ve seen with a stirrup and promote all the entanglement risk, despite that not coming into play then. Although it was far from my first choice it will no longer enter my mind because Bnystrom says so and Lalleluia has backed him up. I’m also going to scrutinize those that aren’t in shape to hang with me and will slash that double edged sword wildly. As John Lee Hooker said, I’m bad, like Jessie James.
C’mon, a little herd mentality here from the opiated den of electrons? Have brains, use them, figure it out on your own, don’t just swallow the peppered gecko the witch doctor gave you. Go out and try a stirrup in bumpy water with some friends standing by. Find its uses and risks. I have friends that call them the “sling of Death,” yet, I give pause to apocalypticism. Before I stamp “Made in Megiddo” on its side, I want to see so myself.
Augustus Dogmaticus
MMVI
I will say that the 1-6 instructional was quite funny. : P
I’m all for experimentation and … vaildating or debunking the assertions of others. The ER docs? Gimme a break! Setting yourself and others as the fonts of knowledge are we? ; ) No need to further experiment, we have concluded the "sling of death is indeed just that. And you heard it here first.
I may bear in mind the cautionary advice and see how replicable it is, but I or someone else may find a way to minimize or eliminate that. Or, we may moo along with the chorus of the herd the fact that the sling of death should be stamped “Made in Meggido.”
In a recent symposium session Leon Sommé went through the contents of his rescue kit. Things he wouldn’t be on the water without. Among it, a stirrup. (This from the man that eschews the paddle float.) Your sage vs. mine.
All with a grain of salt, of course Somehow you seem to be misreading my comments to be blind following of anything or anyone. Sir, you know not to whom you speak L. I follow no one, not even myself.
Agreement on logical points or overlapping opinions are not blind faith.
Your attacks may feel noble, and normally I’d be with you picking apart the status quo to be sure it’s really based on wisdom, but you’re seeing dogmatic pronouncements here where there are only warnings/cautions and concern.
It’s assumed others, being free to do so, will make up their own minds - with or without you pointing out the obvious need to do so.
Stirrups work for some I have done numerous rescues in a variety of conditions with various “tools” on board. Although I can roll with the best of them, there was a period of two years where I could not. Paddle floats with stirrups were a quick route back in the kayak but only with a LOT of practice. Other posters noted that the lower the stern deck the easier it is to climb back on and in. We found the stirrup helped many to get back aboard high decks and begin the process to feel their way up out of the water. Then, with a bit more practice they could leave the stirrup out of the equation. So I say it’s a valid tool for progressing for some of us so we can gain skills. But like all rescue equipment it’s just wasted money if you don’t practice practice practice.
better safer rather then sorry… I find that the kayaking crowd is very divisive on some matters, skeg vs. rudder and stirrup vs paddle float. I never meant to cause any debate, I just wondered how it worked. I’ve seen and have a basic understanding of how you would use a paddle float, but the stirrup was new to me and at the same time, I thought the bag in the link I shared, was a floater, not a rope.
seems that the paddle float should be a must and the stirrup as a precautionary second. and really, I don’t see how it would hurt to have unless space is a serious consideration and you just can’t take one along.
thanks for helping me out tho
our library has a book on paddling in the Pacific North West, it’s basically a beginners/introductory that covers a lot of the questions I’ve been asking. I requrested a hold on it two weeks ago and I got it yesterday…so it wasn’t me being lazy and just asking on here.
Kinda like advice from Dr Joyce Brothers or Dr Ruth. Gotta try and see what you like rather than read about it or watch it on tv. You think this is bad? Just wait until you type the SECRET WORD and this place will go ballistic!!!
No stirrup … no partners You paddle by yourself & don’t need it. People who paddle with others, though, often carry things they don’t need for themselves–a tow line, etc. I think that’s why Leon carries one. Not to rescue himself.
I only mention him because Lou Alleluia seems to defer to authority (“For those of you who don’t know, Brian is a sage on this board”). The problem is that good paddlers disagree.
Arghh… For those inclined, they should also be part of the " essential gear package" (as part of the attitude that it’s “better to have everything, excluding kitchen sink, just in case one comes to an outlying situation that calls for it…”). Afterall, TI is a “sage” too ain’t he? He claims to have singlehandedly improved safety for all kayakers and open boaters.
But I can’t kick my feet to the surface. Really, I’m one of those people who can’t float. If I wasn’t wearing a PFD, I’d go straight to the bottom. I have had many people try to teach me to get my feet to the surface and they all go away scratching their heads?
