@Rookie said:
This link takes you to an event that happened on Lake Superior last fall.
Great example - also got me looking at the CLAP principle. Thanks.
@Peter-CA said:
the stages of competency really caught my eye when we covered it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_stages_of_competence
Neat model - and very true. Hate to say it, but I was thinking of our new President as I was reading it.
@Sparky961 said:
I’m thinking of something similar to the style presented in “Handbook of Safety and Rescue” by Doug Alderson and Michael Pardy.
That’s great - thanks. I think case studies and examples will make it much more interesting.
@Rookie said:
This link takes you to an event that happened on Lake Superior last fall. The coaches were L5 and L4 and probably some BCUs with lots of stars. It’s a long read but well worth it. The last page discusses how the event organizers plan to refine their risk management practices.
Every time I read of incidents in gatherings such as those, I think maybe the student:coach ratio should be no more than 4:1. Not 6:1 or 5:1. Yet 6:1 prevails.
IF economics were removed as a factor, I suspect the ratio would indeed be lowered.
@Sparky961 said:
I tend toward avoidance, perhaps too much so even because I don’t want others’ poor judgement ruining MY nice trip. It is my unfortunate conclusion, however, that the majority of people want to jump right into the “BIG ADVENTURE” without spending the time, effort, and cost getting to the point of competency (good info on that, BTW, Peter). This, more often than not, results in paddling solo.
You sound like me. The instant gratification mentality combined with desire for bragging rights (“I ran the such-and-such!”) really turns me off. I only take people seriously if they are willing to put in the time and effort to establish a minimal baseline of ability and judgment, BEFORE committing to sticking with them. And that might not happen over the course of just one day paddle.
The presentation defines risk as being the possibility of injury or damage. Although most of us probably agree with this, there are some people for whom risk includes the possibility of feeling uncomfortable. Yes, just the THOUGHT of there being risk constitutes risk to them, believe it or not. Thankfully, that type of person usually doesn’t take up kayaking, but be aware they exist. A friend or spouse might drag fhem along on a trip they would not otherwise join.
Oh…I agree with your comment about The Rump.
Good information. I’m not an experience kayaker having just started a couple months ago. However, I’m an experience Air Force Crash Investigator and Safety Officer with about 4000 hours in fighters and high performance jets with almost half that time as an Instructor or Evaluator. Some of our common maxims that might apply:
- Dress to Egress. What’s the worst case scenario you could end up in because all you’ve got is whatever you left the jet with. Cold water? Desert? Arctic? You better be wearing what you need if you have to walk or swim home.
- You need to be thinking several minutes ahead of the jet. Never show up somewhere your mind hasn’t already been.
- Young guys are too stupid to be scared. If the experienced guys are worried, maybe you should be paying attention.
- There is no good reason to die on a routine training sortie. Don’t press a bad situation/weather/etc.
- What is your bailout plan? The bailout person needs to have a plan to be rescued, i.e. preflight his recovery gear and know how all his recovery gear works in the heat of battle. The other members of the group need to have a plan to keep the survivor safe until rescue can be effected.
- Have a lost comm/visual plan. If comm or visual contact is lost, what’s the plan to regain it.
- If it doesn’t sound right, doesn’t look right, or doesn’t feel right, speak up. Don’t enter a situation you aren’t ready for.
- For instructors: If you are learning more than the student is, you’ve probably let them go too far.
eck here’s another article to check out
http://www.blueridgeoutdoors.com/magazine/april-2012/worth-dying-for/
@pikabike said:
Every time I read of incidents in gatherings such as those, I think maybe the student:coach ratio should be no more than 4:1. Not 6:1 or 5:1. Yet 6:1 prevails.
IF economics were removed as a factor, I suspect the ratio would indeed be lowered.
What I’ve found difficult to understand was why the two coaches didn’t carry radios. They were on Lake Superior in October. One even purportedly stated they wouldn’t need radios that day, although that was a requirement set by the organizers (apparently ignored). Even a 4:1 ratio would have had issues if they were all complacent coaches.
Erik wrote: “Ultimately, each paddler is responsible for their own safety. Personal responsibility is the key to safe paddling.” I thought a PLB would be sufficient, but now think that if I attend a symposium on Lake Superior this summer, I probably should have a VHF radio attached to my PFD.
@pikabike said:
I only take people seriously if they are willing to put in the time and effort to establish a minimal baseline of ability and judgment, BEFORE committing to sticking with them.
No doubt - paddlers need to have the minimum baseline for their own safety, and to help others if needed. And that baseline changes depending on the difficulty of the trip. Maybe its the trips I do and the circle of paddler that I have hooked up with, but I haven’t had a problem with people exceeding their skill level.
@tdaniel said:
eck here’s another article to check out
http://www.blueridgeoutdoors.com/magazine/april-2012/worth-dying-for/
Thanks - the best line in the article
“So how do we reconcile ourselves with this (sometimes unavoidable) risk that comes with our sports? The first step in my opinion is to acknowledge that it is present, and to think very seriously about how much risk we are comfortable with accepting in our lives. This will help to guide every decision in the future, and will be different for every person.”
" to think very seriously about how much risk we are comfortable with accepting in our lives. This will help to guide every decision in the future, and will be different for every person."
This concept is one that has been on my mind a lot lately. After 20 years of whitewater rafting, I’m thinking about transitioning away from it, and into more flat water kayak touring. It’s a tough decision because my life & identity has been wrapped up in whitewater and my rafting “family.” As I get older, the level of risk and the desire for the adrenaline rush of class III-IV whitewater is diminishing. Due to work schedule & other commitments, I only rafted whitewater for one weekend last summer. When I really stopped to think about it, I was bummed because I missed my “river family” and not because I missed the thrill. When I think about what gets me excited right now, it’s exploring new places in my kayak. I can still do some weekend class II stuff with my river family in my mini-cataraft, but long whitewater trips just don’t seem to appeal to me as much anymore. I fully acknowledge that kayak touring involves risks. I will do my best to put the same level of thought & preparation into kayak touring that I put into whitewater rafting.
Now I just have to work up the guts to sell my bigger whitewater raft. Getting rid of that gear will be a huge emotional step, but I’m not getting any younger, I’m a caretaker for an aging parent, and I want to see & do new things. The level of risk that works for me is changing.