Playboat
Again my opinion. If you want more manuverability than the Osprey AND still get a dry ride AND stay in a relatively narrow hull AND get it in rubber you are looking at a full on playboat. Madriver’s Outrage X and Dagger’s Encore are two that I like. Bell and Esquif have boats in the range as well. I’d look at the 13 footers often called X models.
I like the Caption as well. That ‘s a 14’ boat with plenty of room for gear but with a 32" beam you may find it wide.
They’re a lot of fun in the rapids but they’re DOGS on the flats.
Tommy
PS you’ve got 15 lbs on me but otherwise it sounds like we are built the same. 5’ 8" long torso short legs.
Or consider a Mohawk XL13…
Highly manuverable yet has pretty good glide. Would perform very well on small twisty streams. You can accommodate your desired knee spread in wider boats with double knee cup pads. http://www.canoecolorado.com/canoeing/outfitting/mikeyee/kcd01.jpg
Millbrook offers a solo version of the
AC/DC called the Patriot. Kaz isn’t showing it on his current website, but if someone is interested, he could probably email some pictures and statistics. As I recall, it is 14’ 6".
“Playful” is a relative term
– Last Updated: Apr-19-09 7:53 AM EST –
I have a Yellowstone, and I love it. I’ve had it out in class I and easy class II and had a blast.
http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2825159540075003331JMjCPz
Its easy to surf, and with a bit of a lean, it will get you in and out of eddies just fine. In big waves, it will definitely take on water. If the waves are big enough, you’re going to swamp - Tommy once suggested installing a periscope. Push it to the edge in the summer when swimming is not a problem, and you’ll probably have a lot of fun. Having said that, the Yellowstone is definitely not a WW boat, and is probably no more maneuverable than your Osprey.
Eric N. is right – paddle a few and see what you like. Guy I know just went through this process. He thought he wanted a Yellowstone, but after paddling a few different boats, ended up with an Equif Vertige.
http://www.coloradopaddlers.org/wiki/index.php?title=Jeannes_Esquif_Vertige_4-4-08
I thought all paddling was "playful"
cheers,
JackL
or buy a second one
perhaps stronger version of the Osprey?
Its an idea that I still have with my Kipawa.
But unfortunately they are almost 2 times more expensive here
than in Canada 
Thanks to all…
I appreciate all the input. Please mind you that a lot of my questions are based on the fact that it is a trip to get to someplace that I can demo a canoe…but I did find a dealer in another state that was with a couple of hours.
I demoed the Mad River and the Argosy. They did not have any Yellowstones in stock and figured it was a pretty close substitute for the Argosy.
I liked the Argosy and thought it felt like it would be a great all-arounder. Surpisingly fast too. Maneuverability was pretty good but not amazing I thought. I was not crazy about the stability profile on it. I don’t mind tender initial stability but I like that noticeable edge upon which you can lean. I did not really feel tha with the Arogsy. I was able to lean it over to the gunwale but did not feel really comfortable doing so without a brace. My Osprey has similar initial stability but a much more noticeable edge to lean on. I am sure I could get used to it but not my preference. Also found that it was not super different in handling from the Osprey.
Then paddled the Mad River. Felt like it floated a lot higer on the water with me in it than the Argosy. That combined with more rocker made it a lot more maneuverable. Very easy to spin around on a dime. Also had really good secondary stabilty.
That did it for me. I wanted something that would be super maneuverable. Already having the Osprey I am not really looking for another boat that blends speed and maneuverabilty…I was something super maneuverable. And this one seems to be the most capable in terms of WW and gear hauling.
So…I bought it. Got the original IQ model with the bucket seat…not sold on the seat yet! If I get it adjusted right it would be awesome but if not then I will look for a way to instal a normal seat.
Matt
Fantastic!
At one point in this thread I posted a rebuttal to the statement that “you must have a dedicated whitewater canoe” for this purpose, but I later deleted it because when I said the same thing about using a 13- or 14-foot touring kayak for scattered Class-I rapids with occasional easy Class-II drops it caused a few of the park-and-play kayakers to have a hissy fit and I didn’t want to risk facing such lack-of-logic again. I really thought a middle-of-the-road boat designed more for maneuverability than cruisers like your Osprey really was what you were looking for. Congratulations and good luck. That’s a really nice boat.
Royalex boats
– Last Updated: Apr-19-09 2:54 PM EST –
I think you need to decide whether you are looking for a full-on whitewater OC1 playboat or a Royalex "river boat". I would consider something like the Wildfire/Yellowstone Solo a "river boat" very suitable for moving water and the occasional easy rapid.
But you are also talking about something "super maneuverable and playful" as well as able to acommodate a load for tripping, and that suggests a whitewater playboat. You don't have to be a daredevil whitewater playboater to own such a boat, but be aware that with a highly rockered whitewater hull you are going to be giving up a lot of efficiency.
Last week I paddled 20 river miles in a Dagger Encore, a full-out "old-school" whitewater playboat. There was a reasonable current, but it was basically moving flatwater. I had a good day, but was sore at the end.
The next day I paddled 20 river miles in my Merlin II under the same conditions and felt like I hadn't done anything.
You already have a pretty efficient boat. I would be inclined to get a whitewater playboat. The Dagger Encore and Caption, Bell Prodigy X, Mad River Outrage X, and Mohawk XL 13 have all been mentioned and all fit this category. Any would suit your size and allow tripping. Captions are highly prized as tandem whitewater playboats and are hard to come by. The Dagger Caper has very similar dimensions.
A cheaper option would be to seek out an older design that would be considered a "dog" by today's standards.
Actually, the Mohawk XL 13 and Dagger Encore fit this description. Some others are the Dagger Impulse or Genesis, the Old Town H2Pro, the Mad River Rampage, or the old Blue Hole Sunburst 2. (Another would be the Whitesell Piranha, but don't bother looking for one, I have been for 2 years with no luck.).
Any of these older designs would be considered way too long, big, and stodgy by today's playboaters, but would be extrememly capable in Class II (or greater) whitewater as well as having sufficient capacity to allow overnight trips.