roll: things to keep in mind

@dc9mm said:
You euro guys roll so funny. Iam amazed you ever make it up. Learn a proper greenland roll and its effortless. You look a straight up toward the sky while your shoulders are flat on the water.Looking at the paddle means you get zero flotation from your body. But hey if it works for you great job. Iam a youngster in my 50’s.

My comments pertained to a whitewater-oriented sweep roll. A slow roll done laying on your back looking up at the sky and coming up laying on the back deck does not work too well in whitewater. In whitewater the goal is to get up quickly and wind up in a position in which you are immediately ready to take an effective stroke without sitting up or doing a major realignment of your torso.

I recently handed my GP to my buddy in his solo canoe. “I gotta get me one o’ these.”

I think a GP is ideal given the inevitable limitations of your age. It permits a very slow easy roll that’s not hard on your body.

Take your sweet time with the sweep, which is even easier and more forgiving than with the euro blade.

Check that you’re grabbing the blade with your palm away from you, wrist tilted slightly back, rather than grabbing the end of the blade. This should help with controlling the blade angle.

Have you been working with an assistant? Take some video? I’m sure if you posted it here, not only would you get a bunch of praise but some tips too! :slight_smile:

On blade angle, l am and always have been about what l can feel. Never opened my eyes under water from first learning to swim. So all the tips that involve seeing things are not much use in a real scenario, though l do wear goggles in a pool because the chlorine bothers my eyes after a bit even closed.

So what l really on is feeling supporting resistance of water under the blade. If it is there l am good to roll. If it isn’t l have the wrong angle and have to loosen up on the paddle so it can find that angle. Which a good light Euro paddle will.

Hey gjf12, You wrote:
I find your post very helpful. The above quote is the only part not so. I don’t have a sense of the correct blade angle during the sweep. Only at the end do I realize if it was wrong, and then it is too late. So I don’t know how to ‘concentrate’ on maintaining the angle.

I know you’re an old dog but if you’d like to learn a new trick try the GP. The blade is “indexed” so it’s nearly impossible not to know what angle you have it at. No diving as you sweep.

@Rex said:
I know you’re an old dog but if you’d like to learn a new trick try the GP. The blade is “indexed” so it’s nearly impossible not to know what angle you have it at. No diving as you sweep.

He already does use a GP. Here is what he also wrote.
“Nowadays, I almost exclusively use one of my GP’s. However, a ‘proper’ greenland roll is impossible because I cannot get my back and head anywhere close to the back deck, nor can I twist enough to get my shoulders flat on the water. I wish I could.”

Doh!
In that case I’d say practice sculling with the GP. I think it was Jaybabina who said something like. ‘Push the blade forward and backward in the water. Repeat a thousand times.’

Once you get the blade to ‘bite’ the water they way it’s supposed to it don’t matter what you do with your head and you don’t have to ‘snap’ anything if you don’t want to. It’s great.

No problem, you were being helpful, and in a long post like this it is easy to miss.

My sweep and roll is very quick. When successful, about 50 or 75% of the time, I am up in about 1 sec. I generally use a an extended GP. I do not find it possible to be aware of blade angle relative to the water, except at the set up and at the finish. If my head is in the wrong position at the end, or my inboard hand has not rotated to near my jaw, then the blade ends up oriented incorrectly.

I am with Celia in keeping my eyes closed.

I might mention that rolling with an extended, unfeathered, wing is more reliable. But I don’t enjoy my wing as much as the GP.

With an extended GP, slow it down! By the time you’re ready to raise your head you’ll discover you’re already almost upright!

I figure maybe 2-3 seconds start to finish but don’t usually count.

No white water is not for greenland paddles. But a storm roll is quick and gets me ready for action in 6 foot waves. No leaning way on back deck. Forward finishing roll. If your old and still do white water your a brave soul. I think white water is a young mans game. To much hitting rocks for old folks.

if I could roll reliably then I could be “dangerous again”. Meaning I could paddle class IV and maybe even try a few Vs. The whole roll thing has gotten a little frustrating for me since it has just kept getting progressively worse as I’ve aged, I’m 56. I haven’t tried since getting my new hips installed but hopefully that will help The leaning forward and getting into the set up position ( a nice tight defensive tuck, wrapping your arms around the boat, and getting the knuckles out of the water) is still really tough for me but I might be ready to try in the pool this winter. I Need to lose some weight to help with the forward bending. There’s just some places you don’t want to go without a roll.

My buddy just over 60 went white water kayaking. He can roll every time like me. He still hurt his shoulder when flipped and scraped along some rocks. He rolled up but still. I laughed and told him I Told you white water is a young mans game. Class 3 and below sure but class 4 like he was in is not for the old.

I am 66. The primary reason that I don’t paddle Class IV water in a hard boat anymore is my concern about what would happen if I came out of the boat. Years past, I took some swims in difficult whitewater that I rather suspect would kill me now.