good variations
This convinces me. Paddling into the wind, a large feather angle will help. Seems to me the only reason to feather. No rational point at all in a 15 or 30 deg feather.
The original reasons for feathering…
– Last Updated: Oct-22-11 9:27 PM EST –
...with whitewater paddles were twofold:
1. To clear gates better with the upper blade when racing
2. To slice through oncoming waves that are over your head
Number 1 is obviously not applicable to sea kayaking and number 2 is a very rare occurrence for most of us, if it ever happens at all.
Exactly right
The arguments for feathering are sketchy at best. You’re correct about 90 degree feather into a headwind, but think about what happens in a crosswind. The wind is going to catch the blade and try to capsize you. Intermediate feather angles create problems from more wind angles. From the front or the rear, the wind will cause one blade to rise and the other to dive. From the sides, it will twist the paddle and again, try to capsize you.
With an unfeathered paddle the only situation where you’re at a disadvantage is going into a headwind. However, that’s also where you’re strongest, most stable and in control.
The bottom line is that there’s no advantage to feathered paddling for sea kayaking. It’s just a pointless carryover from whitewater.
We certainly are, …
… 'cause you’re upside down and can’t roll back up -
“…You are all at a level above me…”
For what is worth, I learned rolling in a 60 or so degree paddle. Then down the road switched to 0 degree (no intermediate angles). So I had the opposite transition compared to you and it felt just as awkuard at first as it probably does feel to you. It was not the feather angle that mattered but the change. You’ll get it soon enough.
It seems that the key question is…
…why should he bother to change from unfeathered to feathered in the first place? There’s nothing to be gained for all the work he’ll need to do to make the transition.
That’s another topic, but
one that interests me too. I paddle a fair number of hours against strong winds (so I can paddle downwind) and I do some racing with surf ski/fast kayak occasionally. I would love to use a feathered paddle for these - it really makes a differece there. But I like using a GP (unfeathered) and prefer the symmetry of an unfeathered paddle in general. Maybe he’s trying to switch back and forth as opposed to transition to feathered alltogether? Switching for me does not werk too well, though after a few minutes my forward stroke mostly adjusts to the feather, I still don’t think it’s a great idea to do that - feels unnatural and I’m sure I’ll miss my braces or have to think about how to roll as opposed to just do it…
I quite disagree
"The arguments for feathering are sketchy at best. You’re correct about 90 degree feather into a headwind, but think about what happens in a crosswind. The wind is going to catch the blade and try to capsize you. Intermediate feather angles create problems from more wind angles. From the front or the rear, the wind will cause one blade to rise and the other to dive. From the sides, it will twist the paddle and again, try to capsize you. "
It’s true the side wind CAN capsize you if you’re not aware. This is particularly problematic with sudden gusty wind. The solution is actually quite simple: LOOSE GRIP! The paddle may fly out of the top hand in the strongest gust, but it won’t capsize you. (nor will the paddle fly away since your bottom hand is still holding it)
On steady side wind, the body can easily compensate for it by modifying the paddle stroke.
"With an unfeathered paddle the only situation where you’re at a disadvantage is going into a headwind. However, that’s also where you’re strongest, most stable and in control. "
Given that’s where you WISH to make headway, it’s a big advantage. Provided the disadvantage doesn’t out weight it. In my view, the disadvantage does NOT out weight it. So I keep my paddle at 60 degrees because I’m too lazy to waste my energy fighting head wind.
“The bottom line is that there’s no advantage to feathered paddling for sea kayaking. It’s just a pointless carryover from whitewater.”
That’s just your own personal view. Others like myself DO see advantage. So in my view it’s FAR FROM pointless as you so strongly believe.
Only one reason would convince me
…to go feathered. And that is if my body likes the way it feels, if it feels natural and stronger than unfeathered. It does not, in either 15 or 30 degree, and anything more than that was so awful right away that I didn’t bother going further along those lines.
Others’ results may differ from mine. Use what’s best for you.
I agree. just go unfeathered
Wind
For sea kayaking, it isn’t often that you are paddling directly into the wind. My old paddle allows only 45 and 90 degree feather, so I can’t speak as to what lesser angles do in strong wind. Until it breaks, I’m not buying a new one and the darn thing seems invulnerable.
My experience was that even with a wind that is only slightly off one side of the bow, a paddle feathered at these angles really wants to fly up and out of the hands. The human response to this is to grip more tightly, which, as one poster pointed out, is exactly what will lead to a capsize because you can’t out-muscle the wind and get the paddle back down to the water. A loose grip helps, but in conditions where the paddle will be ripped from your hands, the risk of capsize is still high as you try to recover the paddle I’ve had this happen since I don’t close my fingers on the paddle at all and the paddle just takes off when feathered. Until you have a paddle try to take off like a Cesna in a hurricane, you really don’t appreciate how much force is applied to the end of that paddle.
Dowd points out that (high degrees of) feathering only provides an advantage when the wind is directly in front the paddler. My tests in a few storms certainly bears that out. Since these same feathering angles are most likely to lead to tendon injuries, don’t feather my paddle at all any more. I like the feel of it better, I think it is more efficient for me, but it still means that I have to think about the setup for my roll a lot of the time. It’s not that big a deal (since I can right myself long before I’ll ever run out of air), but I did paddle feathered for a lot of years before making the switch and the habits are strongly ingrained.
Rick
I think I might be handicapped
But I need to actually see what the student is doing in the water before prescribing a course of action.
Do you have a video of yourself rolling with a feathered paddle?
If you do post it, need a shot from above and a shot in the water at almost eye level.
Barring that, get a good rolling instructor who can work with you on your paddle mechanics.
But to answer your question directly.
A feathered vs. non-feathered on the onside should effectively make no difference. It’s the offside that is screwed up. So if you are having trouble with feathered rolling, you should effectively be having trouble with your roll when unfeathered? Do you get what I’m saying?
???
Well, I’m thinking that for a right-handed person using right-hand control and using a standard right-hand-forward roll position and sensing the paddle-shaft position with their right hand – the feather of the other blade shouldn’t be too important, should it? Would you even care if the other blade was missing entirely?
that was my question too
Which is why a video of the roll would be so helpful, it’s possible feathering has nothing to do with the problem.
kwikle response
– Last Updated: Oct-26-11 10:42 AM EST –
I'm pretty sure it's a feather problem for me. I hit all my rolls when the paddle is not feathered. When it is feathered sometimes the blade dives (I've read the interesting discussion on possible causes of blade diving and am thinking about what was said).
I sometimes purposefully capsize into the water, rather than set up for a normal roll, to make the roll situation more realistic. In this case, the sweeping blade can be at an angle to the water (I believe this answers your question).
I do try to flatten the blade to the water surface, then sweep, but often don't seem to get this right. I will try the false sweep that was suggested.
I probably could try paddling unfeathered, but noticed a few days ago that it seems very uncomfortable after 5 years of feathered paddling.
I probably will get a skilled observer for one session and that might take care of the problem!
You
need to slow your roll down and FEEL the paddle interacting with the water. body, boat blade…if you get the actions with 2 out of three correct, you will come up…if you get all three, you will come up effortless and smooth. Feathered or UN-feathered doesn’t matter at all…as long as you are in tune with the paddles interaction with the water.
Best Wishes
Roy
Great summary
That’s the most succinctly I’ve ever seen it stated.
yeah, that was good
I wonder if rolling with only the long half of a two-piece paddle would help simplify the thought or concern re: feathering.
My Tooksook has a 90 degree feather
Keeps things simple…
Good idea
I tried it a couple years ago and found it’s actually a little easier than with full paddle. The back end blade isn’t there to worry about at all. The only catch is that the half-paddle feels off-balance when you’re used to the whole paddle.
The reason I tried it was because someone had told me that students in a class he attended had been directed to toss away their main paddles, capsize, and get back up somehow in 6-ft swells. He grabbed one piece of his spare and rolled up with it–the only person there who did not wet exit. Sounded like a much simpler, faster, easier way to roll up than assembling the spare while upside-down, so I had to try it myself (minus the swell, which we never have here).
Y’know, I should add that to my ever-growing list of skills to keep practicing. Not just something to try a few times, but to actually get comfortable doing. Should be easier to switch sides underwater with half a paddle, too.
Minor Issue
Bynstrom stated in reference to feathered paddles:
2. To slice through oncoming waves that are over your head
This can happen fairly frequently when going out through high or steep (aka. dumping) surf, even a feathered paddle can be a problem in such conditions since one blade of the paddle is always exposed toward the oncoming water. The only solution to this is to time your stroke so that when you finish the paddle is parallel to the boat as the wave passes beneath you. Until you pop out of the wave, you are effectively finishing the stroke while under water (an odd, but thrilling feeling 
).
It is less of an issue with a feathered paddle, but it exists all the same. You have to be prepared for either being thrown backward (and generally upside down) by the wave in such conditions or safely passing through the other side. I’ve seen the former happen, but haven’t experienced it myself. I’ve seen some do this for fun/practice and recover after being tossed about like a cork. Not sure I even want to be in that category of paddler :).
Rick