Thank you for your sensible post
Once again I sit here and chuckle at all the rollers trying to impress upon us long time paddlers that we “must” do what they do or are not in the “club”, and after reading all of the posts above and some of the stupid positions those paddlers put themselves in, I can fully undderstand why they absolutely need a roll.
Cheers,
JackL
Conversely. Many people do not go
into challenging or fun conditions because they do not know how to roll. I believe that this is more often the case than the opposite. I also try to scull, brace, and roll in the conditions I am challenging myself with, otherwise what have you really learned about your ability. I rolled at first because I wanted to learn, I roll now because I want to continue the learning process and further my comfort in the boat. The more I am in the water (upside down) the more I fell a “oneness” with the boat. The boat is an extension of my body and together we play in the water. This does not mean I am willing to do things that look to be beyond my skills (of which there are plenty). That is what a brain is for. People have accused me of showing off and that is because they do not know me. I consider myself to be a fat slob who is incredibly lucky to be kayaking at all. I guess the best way to explain it is to look back to my childhood at the community pool. Sometimes you just get bored and start twirling around under water and pretend you are a dolphin or fish and enjoy the weightlessness and freedom. Rolling sometimes feels that way to me. I want to feel comfortable and free. What the hell do I have to show off about. Come on.
Even Dubside has to swim on occasion…
His roll failed in protected waters and he was laughed at -
What can I expect from mine then…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5787RZW0zS0
To each his own…
IMHO, just paddling is overrated. Greenland (G-style) rolling is addictive, not to mention just plain fun. I probably spend 75% of my time on the water just practicing rolling. When practicing, I wear nose plugs and goggles so I can watch and analyze what I’m doing in comfort.
I disdain showing off, so I usually find a secluded spot (close to shore) and practice strong/offside rolls (for my own benefit). I try it slow, I try it fast, I try to chain together multiple rolls as fast as I can, I play “what if” games, and then I get my wife to film my progress so I can play-back and freeze frame while studying my technique for fine tuning back at home on my puter. This is a real hoot and getting wet is what kayaking is all about.
A side benefit to all this is not only building skill and confidence, but allows one to work on stretching and improve one’s flexibility; an indispensable skill for us older paddlers…
Once I get rolling out of my system, it’s time to go lilly-dipper paddling for aerobic stamina and to practice my skinny-stick canted forward stroke. I find that after rolling practice, my edging, bracing, torso rotation, flexibility, and overall confidence is sky high and allows me to enjoy general paddling all the more. You feel totally in control and willing to push your limits further.
Kayaking, however you like it, is one of life’s great hobbies.
Check out this animated (Euro) sea kayak instruction at: http://www.kayakpaddling.net/
Caution: The G-style hook digs very deep! 
a suggestion
It’s a cute and folksy way to personalize a topic setting up an argument between " us long time paddlers" and other folks “you rollers telling us what to do” but it’s a distraction to the discussion of matching skills with conditions. Moreover for folks with little experience it’s misleading, especially those who start off paddling in cold water conditions.
As a “long time paddler” in warm water conditions you have a different set of conditions than a paddler (however named) in cold water where the consequences of immersion require a few more skills to ensure safety.
I’ve got a friend who paddles hard all year round more than anyone I know in the Chesapeake. He can’t roll and paddles solo in sub 40 degree water. Never capsized and paddles a more stable kayak in the winter. Good for him.
I learned to paddle in the S.F. bay area where a wetsuit is necessary and any exploration along the coast exposed one to breaking waves. I did not learn how to brace after two years of paddling until I learned how to roll. In those two years good judgement, timing and a stable boat allowed me to compensate for that lack of skill. But it wasn’t until I learned to roll that I could manage a 18" wave of white stuff hitting me broadside when there’s a wall of rock 50’ to one side and the ocean on the other.
No one told me I had to roll to be something. I was doing something and the water told me “if you wet-exit here you’re f*cked”. The way to not wet-exit was to roll.
Dubside blew a roll!!!
I’m crushed but heartened at the same time–even if he was in a rubber raft, if he can blow his, makes me feel a littler better if (when) I blow mine.
I meant
the other paddle.
depends if you wear cotton.
P
what it really comes down to
is the more skills you have, the better kayaker you are—my roll is so-so but I have one and have used it in combat conditions(but not recently) and I do work to improve it—are people who do not have rolls still “sea Kayakers”–sure they are—would they be better sea kayakers if they had more skills, including a roll? Bet your ass they would be. If my roll were better I would be a better paddler–no question about it. You can have all the excuses in the world for not having skills(don’t need them, never would use them, enjoy myself fine without them seems too elitist to acquire them etc)—but they are still excuses—
Do you need a roll to paddle on the ocean?–No you don’t I’ve guided all types of people who didn’t know one end of a paddle from the other, let alone have a roll and they enjoyed it and were safe-- What people like JackL are saying is that “I have reached the limit of my skill progression and don’t care to learn how to roll and am still going out safely” And that’s true–its also true that if JackL learned how to roll he would be adding more skill to his paddling repetoire and would be even safer—nothing engenders a feeling of confidence like a stong roll.
Further thoughts on “needing” to roll
– Last Updated: Dec-03-08 3:04 PM EST –
We didn't "need to roll" for quite a number of years that we went out along the coast of Maine on vacation. In those years we also, because of not having really robust skills, felt we had to forego some trips further offshore because we knew our paddling and rescue skills were not up to a hard challenge.
It's not that we didn't enjoy our time staying closer to home (shore ) - we did, and came back feeling refreshed. Any time on the water is fun.
But - frankly it was getting stale. We've had MUCH more fun since we've gotten to where we can go out further, explore areas that we would have had to look at wistfully before. And the whole set of competencies associated with learning to roll have been much of the growth that has allowed us to be more flexible.
Do we take crazy chances? Not at all. These days, if someone is going to be a spoil sport and pull the plug it's often me. But even within that confine, we are doing a lot more fun paddles these days.
hey, what’s so bad about showing off?
I often roll just to show off when an excursion boat or ferry goes by (at a safe distance), or if I find myself near a powerboat with kids in it. Just trying to add to the local color and provide 5 seconds of entertainment. I know I was entertained and intrigued the first time I saw someone roll a kayak, and I might have sought out kayaking a lot earlier if I’d seen it when I was a kid. There aren’t that many things a middle-aged guy can do that a kid might find entertaining.
Having a Roll
What having a roll to me means I don’t have to depend on fellow paddlers and put them at risk in bad conditions should I have to swim. Without a roll you are either doing some kind of self re-entry or depending on someone else to help. This puts them at risk of a capsize. I’d rather have a roll and avoid the situation all together.
Rolling on the beach
– Last Updated: Dec-03-08 7:44 PM EST –
First, rolling on the beach/sand in very shallow water does work. I've done it many times.
You do not need to have a roll to be a kayaker (real or imagined), but it is a great skill to have. I think that most people vastly under-rate the value of a good roll. Read "Deep Trouble" sometime... every single problem situation starts with the paddler(experienced or otherwise) coming out of the boat.
Rolling and Bracing
It was easier for me to learn how to roll than it was to learn intuitive low and high recoveries from every possible boat/body/paddle position I end up in in big water- but because I could roll, I was able to learn intuitive bracing and recoveries much easier and quicker.
Roll on
– Last Updated: Dec-04-08 11:18 PM EST –
I’ve been kayaking in open-ocean (Arctic, Atlantic, Pacific, Bering) for 25 years. Most of those trips have been easy and some have been hard; they have included a broad variety of sea conditions. I learned how to roll about 15 years ago and have never had the opportunity or need to execute that skill other than for some macabre sense of bravado – an evening out of Pond Inlet trying to impress my then girlfriend – or to cool off when I was foolish enough to have paddled in a warm climate. I do think that rolling is a “trick” and also that it is made far too much of within this forum. The BCU’s focus contributes by stressing practice, practice, practice.
I have had the opportunity to speak with a number of elders along Norton Sound who used kayaks in their youth. None knew how to roll, nor did Sergie Sovoroff, from Nikolski on Umnak Island. Like them I’d rather paddle than practice to paddle.
It’s going to be a long winter!
By the amount of responses to the question, it appears as if quite a few have hung up their paddles for the winter.
Me? I’m in it for the long haul. If the water (in Michigan)is open here by the house, I’m going to be on it. If all is frozen, then it’s off to the woods to xc ski.
You could try “Ka-boggining”. I use my 9’6" OT Otter.
The grandkids and I have a lot of fun on their sliding hill.
My heart goes out to those who have to stay inside.
Keep the P-net fires burning.
So what is your suggestion ??
I have paddled your northern California waters for almost a year.
Also Alaska, British Columbia and the Yukon
Used the same kind of clothing I use here paddling in the mountains of NC in the winter.
Cheers,
JackL
Let’s Roll!
I would love to learn how to roll. I need to either take a class or find someone in my area willing to teach me. Matter of fact, I think I’ll go ahead and set this as a New Year’s Resolution!
I’d like to think of being able to roll as having another tool on my belt. Another trick in my bag, if you will. Certainly can’t hurt to learn something new!
rolling
Jay speaks my mind. Rolling is a great skill to have and can be a fun end in itself, but you can have a lot of fun in a kayak and stay safe w/o rolling skills if you have good judgment.
more jokes?
jus kiddin’. You obviously have been paddling a lot but the issue of matching skills to conditions isn’t helped by illustrating exceptions.
A person who can roll is better matched to paddling in cold water solo far from shore than one who isn’t.
A person who can roll is better matched to launching and landing through surf than one who isn’t.
That you or my friend have paddled in those conditions doesn’t change the argument and misleads the beginner that exceptions are an appropriate model.
It comes across a bit like “I’ve driven for 40yrs and never got in an accident” as a justification for not wearing a seat belt.