Nice to get a personal reply calling me
a “idiot” for stating facts.
Needless to say I spamed it and won’t have to worry about your insults any more.
I guess you just don’t want to own up to the facts of life.
I hope you are a much happier person then your e-mail makes you out to be.
Cheers,
JackL
how is that demeaning??
JBV mentioned guides that don’t know how to roll or actively look to expand their skills. From your other posts on this site it seems you have the same philosophy.
It also seems you are down on the guides for not knowing how to roll… how can that be?? After all of your insistence that rolling is unnecessary and your resistance to learning new things you. Seems you and the guides in question share the same ‘flaws’. Very interesting.
You might want to reread his post
and then reread my post and see if you can get the gist of whatI was getting at.
Or is it just that you want to hop on my philosopy about rolling ???
I don’t believe I have ever said that rolling was “unnecessary”. If I did I didn’t mean it for any one who rolls or enjoys rolling.
I will gladly repeat what I have said a zillion times in regards to rolling.
I have no desire to roll, I don’t want to roll and in my estimation the majority of paddlers on the water don’t roll.
I am quite content to be able to accomplish a self rescue in a matter of a few seconds and spend a half a day every year practicing it, although in 15 years of paddling I have never had to use it.
Many of my friends and many who are well know posters here on P-net roll. We all paddle together at various times.
I guess on ending this matter in regards to the above poster; would you want to go on a guided trip where the owner or manger would refuse to go with his own guides ??
Cheers,
JackL
Almost Forgot…
Several years back my buddies and I were kayaking at the Outer Banks. The weather service predicted that the wind was going to die down. It sped up. We headed for home and a big wave caught me off guard. Suddenly I’m upside down in very cool water. I had a roll and didn’t use it. I swam because I was totally unprepared to roll. I got a big education that day.
Be like the boy scouts. Be prepared.
I taught myself to roll for one reason.
After a long day of paddling I am pretty tired. Rolling takes less effort than any other self rescue. I always practice rescues after I am tired to see how I would do in a worse case scenario. Rolling by far takes the least amount of effort to get back upright.
Best comment so far
At the end of a long trip when you get back is precisely the time i feel you should practice re-entries and self rescues. this will give you a true measure of your skills and abilities after you have dealt with conditions and your strength and stamina may not be where it was a couple of hours ago.
And I heartily agree that a roll is the least stressful and physically demanding self rescue.
Paul
rolling
I also like to practice rolling at the end of my paddling days and trips. I like to practice with my kayak still loaded with all my gear, and when I’m tired after a 20 mile crossing. I also practice in stormy weather during the summer, when the water and air are warm, because rolling is a lot different in wind and waves.
Rolling skills have improved my ability to brace and correct my balance when starting to capsize.
Great point.
– Last Updated: Dec-07-08 1:25 PM EST –
How many non-rollers have practiced that paddle float (or whatever recovery) in less than flat water after a long hard paddle?
Only time (pre-rolling) I had to actually use one besides practice (to aswer the question about unintentional dumps on the discussion board) was in 2-3 foot short period stuff a few hundred yards off the beach after already doing 15 miles. Nothing even remotely dramatic, an no problem in the warm waters here, but I did need to proceed a lot more carefully, slowly, purposefully - and it was - even done as "casually" as possible - still physically taxing at a point where I was already getting tired from distance and steadily increasing wind/sea. General fatigue was why my attention lapsed and that wave caught me to begin with. Well that and it being only my third time in a new kayak 7" narrower than I'd been paddling ;).
It was one of a few "accelerated learning days" (aka - a bit stupid, but with educational/developmental benefit, and easily survived). It also factored into my thinking about rolling (though I already had decided to learn eventually when I went made the switch from SOT to sea kayak).
I'm reminded of a fun crossing of Blackwater Sound with BB, Grayhawk, JackL, and company. Didn't need to roll, or really even throw a real brace since we were mostly head into it - but it was a long slog. Doing a few rolls after that? No problem.
Post paddle rolling, besides being a better measure of real world usefulness, can also make for a nice cool down/stretch. Doing other rescues when tired? Can be a real chore (which is why some folks only practice them once or twice a year, if that, and typically on calm water while still fresh).
Even half a roll
can get you a much needed breath of air
Which is good for…
– Last Updated: Dec-07-08 5:39 PM EST –
... a rollers and those learning who need to reorient/regroup for another attempt if first(or first few) don't get it and air gets short - but not very useful for non-rollers who will just have to punch out anyway. Might buy them time to wait for an "eskimo rescue" or HOG from someone else - but if thay have that sort of situational awareness and composure, they'd almost surely have a roll too.
Side sculling is a way to "half" roll and stay there breathing for as long as you want - take time to assess, adjust, chill/rest/recover a bit, etc. Some learn this first. For others, like real deep bracing, it is a lot easier to work on once you can roll.
HI
To answer your question. I don’t think you need to know how to roll to kayak in warm conditions. But when doing a self rescue, make sure not to let the kayak get away from you in the wind. You could also be injured if the kayak were to slam into you with a wave.
At first, I taught myself to use a combat roll that worked pretty well. I tried to use it in the surf when I got dumped and my paddle hit the sand and I had to use the paddle all the way out and lean back, but I got up.
An instructor watched me and gave me some pointers to keep the paddle up on the surface with a cork screw roll and it was amazing how effortless it was.
When I practice I can really find the grove and roll till my arms are like noodles. Even then if I lean all the way back it doesn’t take any effort at all.
Also, sometimes after a long trip on my first attempt it takes more force, or I have to catch a breath and get my body centered, even after hundreds of successful rolls. So, I’m still refining my skills.
I enjoy rolling and think it could be useful, but it’s not necessary in most conditions. I suppose that even in the surf it might be safer to bail out instead of taking a chance of having your head pile driven into the sand in shallow water? But there are a lot of places where I don’t want to self rescue and would much rather roll back up.
For me it’s also good exercise to prevent repetitive motion. I enjoy it.