Wish We Had A Pool Available
The local club sometimes is able to coordinate the use of a pool up in Jacksonville for practice but that is a trek and I have not gone up there. Afraid my practice sessions have become fewer and shorter with the water temps near 50. I was cold for an hour after my last practice which lasted only 30 minutes.
Hopefully we will start to warm up soon.
Happy Padding,
Mark
high bracing
– Last Updated: Feb-09-06 2:37 PM EST –
I disagree if you perform a high brace/low brace correctly you are well within any safety margin unless in white water.
It is not a risk free sport. You must develop the skills, the muscle and the fitness to deal with the conditions you might encounter. There is nothing overly dangerous with bracing other than doing it wrong.
If you are over reaching with the outboard hand yes you can risk dislocating a shoulder, but that's because you're doing it wrong.
Nice Description
I’m going to try this when pool class starts for me.
Thanks…Lou
bracing behind shoulder
I know that when I get lazy my braces and sweeps start moving behind my shoulder, which is dangerous. The worst case is when you almost get up and you try to pry that last little bit, with a paddle that’s now well aft of the cockpit. Ouch! As sing said, better to just tuck and roll up again.
Sweep or C to C???
Are you doing a sweep or a C to C? I used to do a C to C, but also had shoulder problems. I went to a sweep roll which puts no stress on the shoulder at all.
As far as high braces are concerned…if you really are having shoulder problems then don’t worry about a high brace if you are going over. Just tuck down into your setup position and roll up. Why risk your shoulder to spare your head from getting wet.
Matt
I am rehabbing a shoulder
– Last Updated: Feb-09-06 9:42 PM EST –
(impingement syndrome/rotator cuff/ac joint probelms) and have been doing great, and had resumed rowing on the erg for fitness, and was back on the water paddling. I took a roll class last Thursday and the motion of sweeping repeatedly, really tweaked my shoulder, and left me with residual pain for days afterwards. I think it probably depends on which ligaments are involved, etc.
It has been bumming me out big time! I had been feeling like I was neglecting my avocet and sea kayaking skills, but maybe I will be spending more time in the ski after all... I haven't been able to row for a week. It never bothers my shoulder to actually paddle, but overhead movements and extension in some directions is what aggravates my shoulder. I do PT guided strength training and prescribed stretches.
I was in a one on one class, and the instructor thought since I was fairly strong and flexible that I might be better learning the C to C for that reason, but now I don't know... I think it might be good if I could practice with some of you guys and concentrate on thinking of using the torso twist to do the sweep and keeping the paddle passive. That may help.
I will continue to follow this thread with interest.
Pam
My Experience
– Last Updated: Feb-10-06 5:48 AM EST –
The things I did Wednesday night that seemed to help most were focusing on the knee and using a light grip.
Coming up on the right, I would relax the left leg and pull up with the right knee as I came up. It took a lot of pressure off the shoulder. I'm not sure why the light grip helped. I think it kept the blade flatter in the water so I didn't have to yank down hard on a somewhat diving paddle.
I try to come up with the head down and way back like in the Eric Jackson video.
Also... theres a little mental thing that has helped me. When someone tells you "keep your head down" they are essentially telling you "go kill yourself." Here's what to tell yourself... I swear it works... "Bring the boat up first."
Wednesday night was a great session for me and my shoulders feel fine today.
Mind Tricks
– Last Updated: Feb-10-06 5:58 AM EST –
If you have a tight grip, the mind will want to go there and take away or split the focus from driving up with outboard knee.
Paddle position takes on less importance as one becomes more adept in engaging the the body in righting the boat.
sing
Tight Grip
I went through a period this past summer while trying to learn my roll where I completely lost it. I could not even begin to come up. It took a while to figure it out, but my problems all related to what I was attempting to do with the paddle. I was attempting to bring myself up with the paddle and only resulted in making the paddle dive.
Your torso/hips/thighs/knees roll the boat, the boat brings you up, the paddle provides a little balance.
Happy Paddling,
Mark
Loose grip
– Last Updated: Feb-11-06 10:32 PM EST –
Accomplishes a lot of things all at once (now if I could only remember that myself while trying to do a more forward roll on my left...). As Sing said, any tension takes the mental and bodily focus to that point, so if the grip is tight your body response/attention is going to shift to the torso and away from the thigh/knee and midriff where it belongs.
Also, a Euro paddle if kept at very light pressure will tend to find a climbing angle - the secret of a really comfy full-over-to-the-side scull. The more you tighten down the grip, the less likely it is that the blade will be able to give you that advantage and the more likely it is to dive.
As to the head down image - whatever works is good. It's all true - the boat really is being brought up under you, especially "feelable" on a back deck roll. But the head down image, if coupled with an initial tight upward curl around the boat and the shoulders tucked and following the head, so the whole assembly is pushing down together, can also be helpful as an image. Done right, it is almost impossible to do that without at the same time doing a pretty robust thigh/hip thing.
As to the sweep roll being easier on the shoulder than some of the others, not sure I agree. I am just now trying to add the ability to keep the paddle moving in a sweep longer on my right in a roll rather than just bringing it straight down as I snap up, so am at the ugly stage of it. But I find that, similar to someone above, if I have a bad start and am not mostly up by the time the paddle is behind my shoulder, I end up putting stress there regardless of what kind of roll I tried to start.
High Brace
Matt,
Check out EJs rolling and bracing video if you get a chance. His high brace puts your shoulder and head in the water. If you try to do high braces without your body down in the water you are more likely to hurt your shoulder.
~wetzool
My biggest problem
when I was learning to roll was getting a solid brace with the paddle. Everything I read and was told was to hold the paddle firmly. I discovered that if I held the paddle loosely in my hands it would always adjust itself to be perpindicular to the water as I pulled on it. This gave me much better success and let me develope a feel for what the paddle was doing. Another technique I use on every roll that helps with body technique is to concentrate on keeping my face at the water surface. When upside down and ready to start the roll I reach up as far as I can to get my face as close to surface as poosible and then during the roll I try to keep my face at the surface so that It’s the last thing get’s pulled out.
Sweep…
If done correctly, the sweep should require almost no downward pressure at all. The blade should skim effortlessly along the surface until you are up. If you experience any sort of pressure on the blade then you are causing your blade to dive.
Matt
demystifying "no pressure on paddle"
This thing of no pressure on the paddle is almost in the realm of mystification and idol worship for new paddlers. Not that anyone here is trrying to do this just an obervation over 25 years of kayaking.
So why is there so little pressure on the paddle? Where does the force to rotate the boat come from and how is it transmitted to the hull?
Well, IF one’s torso is flat in the water and extended, then the rotation of the hips, has a flat surface to resist and so the boat rotates instead of the toso for the most part. Thus, only significant pressure on the paddle comes from the very last part when ones torso then arms and head come up out of the water either over the front or rear deck. Even then most of the force resisting falling back in the water can come from inline pressure from the boat holding you up rather than the paddle.
Once one relies mostly on torso and boat to resist and assist, then the paddle becomes mostly a steadying force OR in really rough seas, a turbo charge to the whole process, as in a twist semi sweep modified C to C roll.
Evan