Easier said than done
At my skill level, I would have a hard time rolling with so little connection to the boat. Easier at this point to readjust and regain a good position.
Gear?
Seems to me if your in and can’t can’t move yourself around - you should be in good enough to roll.
Is your skirt or any other gear fighting you?
If you have a tight deck heavy neo skirt the tunnel position relative to your seat could have some effect. With gravity you overcome this sort of thing while upright and it stretches to where you want to be. Once inverted and you’re floating the skirt could shift you - or at least prevent you from shifting as you’d like.
Just a thought. Probably a long shot. Think about how PDF interacts too. Even less likely, but…
Maybe try some reenter and roll practice? This sort of forces you to figure out how to get adjusted and may highlight any gear quirks.
Hmmm
Maybe I am just rushing it and I just need to work on it.
I guess if people can do a re enter and roll by going under the inverted boat and grabbing the coaming to get back in by sliding in upside down, I ought to be able to adjust my position.
I will be working on this.
re enter and roll practice
I think that is the ticket!
Which Body Part(s)?
That is, what point(s) of contact seem to be the most lacking when you feel shifted out of position? Butt on seat, thighs in braces, or maybe feet against pegs?
I just reread this thread, and it strikes me that it may be as much that you feel looser in moving water than you really may be. And you are not yet flexible enough with your roll to handle that kind of difference from being in flat water and having the setup be pretty unchallenged. Hence less confidence and everything goes south.
By the way, this kind of issue is something that I have to fix up in my own work this season. So I am very sympathetic to that Aack! moment when you just don’t think you’ll be able to solve problems down there.
Well
It seems that when my roll fails, I don’t feel right in the set up. It feels like I’m slumped in th seat a little so that my back and butt aren’t quite settled in the seat. My driving knee might be a little to the left of the thigh brace. I can’t seem to get the paddle parrallel to the boat, because I’m not up straight in the boat. The is boat twisted to the right. I’m sure that current and wind is a factor here like the DVD First Roll talks about. I have to think that when anyone goes over in conditions they can be in less than perfect position in the boat. I think if I practice entering the boat from under water as in a renter and roll, it will help me develop the ability to reposition in the cockpit. I think it’s a little different when you have the skirt on though.
What you need …
is blade awareness. You should be able to flip over and move your paddle (and hence your body) to any position with no pressure felt on the paddle. Practice (with a partner) flipping over and moving up and down, to the other side of the boat, etc. In each case move the paddle so it slices through the water with no resistance. This is the kind of thing EJ recommends and it should be almost automatic.
I think I see it
The boat is squirreling around to the right, you are trying to do a right hand roll, I’d guess that your lower body may not be fatally out of position. But because your torso is not centered along the boat, is drifting pulled off to the side, your body memory is messed up enough that you can’t initiate the hip/thigh action. You simply don’t quite get into the position that will start the remembered motion. And at a certain stretch in the thigh it is also truly physically harder to do. So it sure does feel like the lower body is the issue.
I am also assuming you are going for a rear deck roll if you care about your back being against anything. (If you are going for a more forward roll, you should consider losing the back contact as critical.)
If you are going for a rear deck roll, I’d suggest doing whatever is necessary to lay your back down touching onto that rear deck. Seat modifications, whatever. That’ll get you centered. If a forward roll, try forgetting every part of your body except for that few to several inches of thigh that’ll start the boat moving. If the thigh is insisting on maintaining good purchase, the rest of the body has to come along.
And patience and time in conditions… I’d guess that part of what happens is that, as moving water hits you, your instinct to want to get to the surface overcomes your habit of tucking to the boat. So your torso starts moving sooner than your lower body kicks in.
Missing the point
My question was just about repositioning in the boat. That’s the only question here. I feel pretty comfortable with the other aspects of my roll and how to get into set up position under normal conditions.
I will practice re enter and rolls and I think that should do it.
Thanks for everyones suggestions.
Likely, “Missing Your Point…”
– Last Updated: May-24-06 5:35 AM EST –
are you that far out of position? Do you feel as if you'll fall out of the boat? If yes, then you really need to look at your outfitting. If not, then the challenge likely goes back to your psychology while under more than than your body position or roll technique which you said you have down. Simply, I think you're rushing the roll and your mind is involved with too many things, including worrying about whether you're "out of position." A fast roll is fine if you have a good sense/awareness of the hydraulics. Simply sticking the blade into the hydraulics and a slight flick will bring you right back. It's actually the easiest way to come back up technique wise, but the hardest because it requires good awareness (and calm) to recognize where the power is and going. All you need to do is to tap into it. However, this is not what you're doing since you fidgeting to get into the "right position."
Try this the next time you're playing in surf. When you go over, get good contact with the thigh braces, hang onto your paddle, RELAX and just let yourself hang straight down. Don't try to readjust your body position at all. You'll act like a sea anchor and the wave power will pass you by even quicker. Once the wave passes, just tuck forward (which immediately orients you to the kayak) and then you can set up on whichever side you favor and then roll up. In the calm between the waves, this is much different than just doing your roll in flatwater practice. Now, if you let yourself hang and find that you're falling out of the boat, then definitely you got a problem with your outfitting.
Important caveate: don't do this in the inner soup zone, near the shore where you may scrape bottom with your head. If you're playing waist high waves and up (on a non dumping break) and flip in the breakzone, you should have plenty of room for you to just "hang" with banging into anything.
sing
Thanks
Very helpful comments.
Yes
That’s a pretty good description of my issues.
I favor a more forward roll, but also use a layback sometimes. I try to practice both.
Very good comments.
I have a week in Mendocino coming up in June and I intend to work on this until I get it wired.
practice practice practice
Take a few lessons and practice rolling. If you have taken lessons then take lessons from someone else. You should learn how to setup when you are out of position. Lots of kayakers can re-enter and roll.