Nerves
Rolling in warm water is slow and relaxing. Rolling in cold water is⌠FAST-AND-GET-ME-THE-HELL-UP-NOW! Some good hand and head protection along with a drysuit helps a lot. I use Level Six mitts and a hood I found at a dive shop.
Not harder but less practice time
The ice cream headache is hard to tolerate. Even if you avoid the ICH, I think the sheer coldness just reduces endurance in the water.
In warm conditions, I could do 80 or more rolls in a session. The last time I went out (day after Thanksgiving) I did only a dozen plus some static braces. No failures or other difficultiesâjust got tired of the icy bath.
With big waves, maybe adrenaline helps you buy more time. I still donât think itâd be a lot more time with water in the mid-30s and air in the 50s.
Head gear
NRS Mystery Storm under a paddling helmet. Ear plugs and nose plugs. Not yet cold enough for the full hoodâŚ
So, only my face is getting cold underwater for the time beingâŚ
Thanks for the replies
â Last Updated: Dec-08-09 8:44 PM EST â
I think it is definitely a combination of being heavier with all that gear plus some tenseness from the cold. The water being so bumpy is also a contributing factor - harder to figure out the right moment...
And as Kudzu put it - "nerves" or should I say "fear" -;)
Lately I really think I need to take a class and generally work somehow on bracing in rough conditions. Most of the times I capsize in the first place I should be able to avoid with a relatively simple high brace that I know I can do if I am planning for it, but it is not an automatic reflex for me yet. The problem with the white water is that it, ahem, moves and moves fast. The eddies and currents where I paddle are no longer a problem (used to scare me and cause me to stiffen-up a lot last year, where this year they are fun). But sprinkle some unpredictably changing waves that errupt behind me from an odd angle while the kayak is trying to broach and that does it -;)
Cold Water in the Ear âŚ
Very cold water flushed suddenly into the ear can really disorient some people. I know I experienced that a lot my first couple of winters in the surf. I now shove my head underwater when I paddle out and I have a helmet that offers some head warmth, it is really cold water I wear a hood. Cold water on the face and neck and back of the neck kicks off the flight or fight instincts, you have to practice to get over that.
Get bombproof first.
â Last Updated: Dec-08-09 9:59 PM EST â
I run ww every and all winter, when the water's not "hard." The freshwater streams near me? Forget the temps, you don't wanna know...I usually alternate between boats: Sometimes I use my Wavesport Diesel, sometimes I use a Custom Inflatables Thrillseeker(Ducky, reasonable speed, provides a warm layer of air under me bum--And no rolling necessary--So stop snickering y'all.)
My own roll is solid on-side, but questionable offside, mostly due to an old injury and not "where my head's at." In combat, oh excuse me, "in conditions" you can't be choosy or have time to think about which side you're going to go with. Your roll has to be as fluid and natural both sides, as Tiger Woods golf swing(Okay, wrong guy to use for analogy at the moment.)
The fact that I'm weak on my offside, doesn't stop me from paddling hairy mountain streams up to Cl. IV. But up this way, after October, myself and almost no one I paddle with(many guys younger and much more athletic than me)ever practices rolling in frigid freshwater if they can help it--Even though we're all drysuited, skull-capped, Doc's earplugged, helmeted, and neo-gloved/mittened, out the friggin' wazoo.
It's not that the water's "sticky"--it's just insanely hypothermically cold. (No nice gulfstream flowing at high mountain elevations to warm up all the melting snow and ice.) So being "downunder" when you don't have to be, just makes no sense(If I flip during the run itself, that's another matter--My roll either connects or I swim. I accept this as no big deal personally, as almost all the the creeks I run are only 75 to 100 feet wide at best.) One can usually find a way to muddle or crawl out fairly quickly. That is uh, if the ledges haven't killed ya.
In this brrr case, Practice = pool sessions.
PS- "Surferz Ear" does suck. I know. I got it.
Learn to scull on the surface
Thereâs no technique that can bail you out better than sculling. Last time I got hammered in surf, I was out of breath, disoriented and a bit anxious. I sculled up, got a breath or two and finished with a hip snap up. On the surface you can see what youâre dealing with as far as waves and most of all⌠youâre breathing. Itâs the most undervalued skill in kayaking and the one that is often forgotten by good paddlers who could use it.
Cold water is not fun in your ears and up your nose and can get you nervous enough to retreat to crummy, rushed technique and screw up the roll.
Yup
â Last Updated: Dec-09-09 2:09 PM EST â
That's more or less how I got up the last time - sculling then a little push and up. But in bouncy water it's hard to get too much benefit from it since the waves come over me too soon again (not like in surf where you have periods - in the WW it is all much quicker and somewhat more random).
Earplugs? Yup. Always have them once it gets cold and sometimes earlier (and definitely during "practice" rolling). I too had experienced the disorientation from cold water in the ears during some practice rolling last year and it is not a good feeling.
Last winter I paddled through out but I don't think I ever rolled once the water got below 40 - just never flipped as I paddled more protected waters. Was prepared to but it just did not happen. This year I'll give it a try but I'm not particularly looking forward to spending excessive amounts of time underwater once it gets near freezing for sure -;) If it feels too cold, I'll probably switch back to the tamer waters where the chance of going upside down unintentionally is slim to none and if it does happen it will be extremely unlikely that it will happen again soon enough to matter...
surferâs ear
Did you get surferâs ear from kayaking? How long dids it take to develop? Iâve been doing more ocean paddling in the winter and spring and wonder if I should worry about it. If Iâm messing around in surf and know Iâll be rolling a lot, I wear some cheapo foam earplugs. But other times I wonât bother, and Iâll occasionally roll without them, and then thereâs just cold spray coming in the ear every once in a while. Is this something to be careful about if itâs a dozen times a year?
Many good points here. Your description
â Last Updated: Dec-13-09 8:19 PM EST â
sounds like you were calm and rational. You might want to ask yourself if you were feeling as calm and rational in the water as you were in your accounting of it. If so, then some minor technique reinforcements will likely clear things up. If you are not as calm and rational as you sound, then it is time to go make friends with the river. Skip the pool and get in the freezing water and think it out. Cold water is no different than warm, unless it is dialing up your sense of urgency, which will defeat your training. Make friends with the cold, practice in it, and it will be no different than the warm water. I strongly agree with Jay on the use of the scull. It can be a safe zone or purgatory like rest stop. Lay back, take in some air, look around, game plan, and move on. I frequently spend time in breaking waves both facing into, away, and perpendicular to them while sculling to practice a kayaking "time out". I was wondering why you did not come up from your scull?
For the record, you're a bigger man than me, I won't paddle white water. Scares the *hit out of me. I also only paddle with a greenland stick, so this may explain some of my perspective. Bill
isnât the storm a full hood?
Bill
â Last Updated: Dec-10-09 6:34 PM EST â
Thanks for the note. Not that brave -;) I only go out when the river wouldn't be so high as to scare me. But it still startles me quite often since it is moving fast and my reactions are like slow-motion compared to what they should be at times...
The reason I picked-up WW lately is that it is more dynamic and only 15 min. from home or office. The next best nont totally flat water is the Bay (sometimes), but that's 2hrs in driving that I could bo something else with; so I only do if there when ther is a good group of paddlers to enjoy the waters with -;)
easier practice with skullcap + PVCpipe
k,
I picked up a skullcap and manufactured a pvc pipe from a snorkel(w/goggles) up & thru a floating ball. Gives one all the time to breathe, to setup & mentally relaxâŚand the skullcap seems to head off the ICH.
Seems to workâŚfwiw.
$.01
Yeah, Itâs Harder
â Last Updated: Dec-13-09 4:33 PM EST â
I went to the local, calm reservoir this AM. Air temp about 35F and water about 46F. I could do two quick rolls in succession and the discomfort around the eyes and brow got pretty intense despite the thick dive hood. Two quick rolls - wait for my face to quit hurting. Two quick rolls - wait for my face to quit hurting...
Not bad for a little roll maintenance but not a good environment for learning.
Learning is always harder
If I get water sloshing around in my ears (even warm water), I can still roll as usual. But learning a new one with water in ears is definitely hindered, if not impossible. I guess thatâs the difference between having the muscle memory and trying to ingrain it with a new series of movements.
Hereâs some âenvironmentâ for ya:
Note pic #3âFrozen whitewater, can and does happen.
(Personally, I never roll/scull when itâs this coldâOnly draw and duffek;-):
http://picasaweb.google.com/spiritboat/IcyWaters#
Ouch!
second the sculling
I learned a sculling brace this year after seeing a few folks doing it and thinking âgee, that looks really neat.â I didnât realize at the time how much it would help my roll (sweep). Of course, it makes perfect sense in hindsight - it ingrains the most effective paddle position and motion for support near the water and also reinforces a good lay-back.
Now I really wonder why it isnât part of the standard kayak ciriculum. In particular, I think it could cut down on the frustration factor that a lot of folks experience in learning to roll. And itâs not hard to learn â just hang out in a couple feet of water and if you lose your balance, no big deal, just prop back up with the paddle. Much easier than failing your roll where you either need a) a spotter or b) wet exit, bail boat, get back in, etc.
Sculling or static brace
My first successful rolls came after I learned to do a static brace. Initially with the help of a paddle float or a small learn-to-swim vest that my daughter dies not use any more and that I could either keep in the middle of my paddle and slide out towards the end for added buoyancy if the roll did not work. Then I kept the small vest on my deck to use in cases my roll failed of if I needed to roll without the paddle (that hand-roll still eludes me -
Anyway, the water temps are falling down fast. Since I posted the top message in the thread, theyâve gone down by about 4 degrees to around 38F⌠Next time Iâll probably have my full hood on instead of the light-weight âcap-hoodâ that has been good till now in the water (but too hot above it).
Ear plugs work to keep your ear
cavities from filling up with cold water. The cold hastens rolling like nothing else. I use ear plugs for my overall ear health (infections and surferâs ear), plus the less cold infusion they can offer when upside down.
Second, Jay Babina mentioned the sculling brace. I agree mostly. The sculling brace has saved me several times. However, the longer you stay in the transition zone between up and down, the quicker that rock downstream comes up at you. Donât mess around too much with the reactive style of paddling, you will need it on occasion, but if you are going over, brace or scull then get upright and get moving. The best brace in the world is a forward stroke, especially when your body is pointed where you want to go.
Dogmaticus