It can take a while
If you haven’t considered it, ask about learning balance brace and some other body-position exercises before you work more on the roll. If you focus too much on the paddle, the tendency is to pull down on it when it’s mostly your body motion that does the work.
The hip snap
is, I agree, a bit of a misnomer.
The entire goal is to get the boat under one’s bottom so that it floats up vertically beneath you.
This does not need to be a powerful move, it just needs to drive the boat under a couple of inches and bring it directly under the bottom. When I was told to do a hip snap, I imagined a forceful thrust with the lower body when all that was needed was a simple “cha” (as in 1/2 of a cha-cha) move.
The action of pushing the boat under with the hips simply places the boat into a normal floating position. From there, as soon as the body is brought into alignment with the craft, the boat bobs to the surface.
Rick
head position
a different perspective.
contact is complex if you’re not a natural. Ford’s video fills the bill. Different perspectives are united watching the animation.
With the double float position, I rolled a Solstice following 15 minutes hip snapping practice…with the foam float.
Definitely wear a mask
"He suggested maybe bringing goggles (this is in the dirty saltwater bay, not a clean pool, so I didn’t want to open my eyes)."
Yea… The last thing you need is no ability to see what you’re doing. Use everything you can to make yourself comfortable under water and no. 1 is vision. Paddle diving? of course it is… you can’t see what you’re doing. Later on, you’ll know it all by feel. It may sound counter intuitive but forget about rolling up and just try to keep the paddle along the surface. Then after that try your roll up finishing move. If you fail, have the instructor or friend just pick you up.
Good luck, it will all fall into place. Everyone goes through what you are dealing with. But wear a mask! … unless you want to suffer for weeks.
so true.
Mission Bay not great spot …
I used to paddle a lot on Mission Bay when I started kayaking and the water quality is very bad. I remember taking a rescue class from A.A. and the tasted like seabird guano and seal poop. In the summer the waves are small in the Lajollo cove area and the water is clean and actually pretty clear now.
I would be in a hurry to roll up in mission bay too.
float function
The float’s function is misidentified or assumed to be a support. There’s a lot of streaming off this group of non functional ideas/definitions of function…such as ‘dependency on the float for rolling is dysfunctional so all float training will be avoided.’
The float is a period (.) on the end of the arm movement sentence
Tho the float can be used, especially an inflatable float, for continuing a ‘failed’ roll into an upright on the surface position, a float is but the period defining where the end of your motion is in relation to the pelvis/lower back/knees/head position
So there are two basic parts to your body movement for rolling
The arm/shoulder motion connected to a paddle shaft and the pelvis motion
What you’re trying to do here is go from ‘objects at rest tend to stay at rest’ to objects in motion tend to stay in motion’
Arm motion begins the process to motion.
Arm/shoulder/paddle moves your balance/weight in motion onto the lower back…you are swinging up out of the water placing your motion momentum onto the lower back/pelvis
The pelvis is then snapped with head down, knees in position weighing the hull toward an upright position
That’s what Ford’s animation shows you. Your arm motion transfers a swinging hopefully karate whiplike force down onto the lower back/pelvis…you have placed what you have onto a hip snap bringing you upright
Hip snap practice is practice for weighting the pelvis/lower back with movement transfered to a hip snap
The float defines where you are not what you’re doing
period
You rolled with the foam float??
After 15 minutes you rolled with the foam float on the paddle? Or, after you practiced for 15 minutes with the foam float on the paddle you rolled without the foam float?
along surface
For me, keeping the paddle along the surface is the most difficult thing of all. My rolls have been generally successful, though sloppy, and the paddle keeps diving somewhat.
Ummm, you mean the water…
tasted the way guano and seal poop SMELL? At least, I hope that’s what you mean.
Then there’s dead fish that slob fishermen have cleaned and thrown entrails in the water. Nothing like getting a putrid blob of it on your hands, hair, etc., because the oil doesn’t just rinse off, and it doesn’t smell merely fishy. It reeks of the worst tooth decay combined with rotten meat stench.
Second the suggestion to roll at LaJolla instead.
Moving past non intuitive mind pollution
Mind pollution and rolling
As I was going to say my rolling problems (and learning to circular breath on the didgeridoo ) started with wrong thinking.
First get comfortable, or at least confident that you will not drown, when upside down. If that mean flipping yourself and wet exiting after just holding your breath while looking at underwater upside down repeatedly over and over. Good. If it means putting on a mask. Good. Proper set up, focus and effective movement is MORE helpful than speed and strength. My biggest problem was thinking that the hip flip meant flipping the kayak up and over. The non intuitive part of rolling is that you hip flick rolls the kayak UNDER you. Here are the four things that think about when rolling.
- Proper set up.
- Paddle movement which becomes more unconscious with practice ironically.
- Proper hip flick the boat UNDER and timed with the paddle movement.
- Proper end position.
Notice that I don’t put pulling my head out and breathing as a final step. That’s what you do AFTER you roll.
The most helpful books for me on rolling was Hutchinson’s because of his multicolored diagrams. The helpful video for me is The Kayakers Tool Box made for whitewater kayaking but invaluable because they took the time to show the Wrong was as well as the right technique to do it. Hopefully you will practice more than I should.
Hip snap.
Forgot to say that the hip snap is PULLING the boat under you and not pushing it over. And Kent Fords videos are awesome even when the video technology is outdated.
Update!
Updated my original post, but long story short… I did it!
Cool!
Congratulations!
congratulations!
Don’t sleep on it. Try it outside when it’s calm and warm. Then after you get that down, try it outside in conditions.
I say “don’t sleep on it” for too long because I did and had to relearn a bit.
Grats
Now the fun part - learning the other side, too :).
Rick
Yes!
I started to write that. Glad you did.
In my best zombie voice:
learn both sides
braces and rolls
learn both sides
Question…
Can I ask a dumb question? Why is it important to learn both sides? When you’re underwater can’t you set up to either side? Or is that too much thinking in the moment?
Not just part of the toolkit…
Learning to roll on both sides is useful since one may capsize to either side. If so, moving a long paddle around under water to adjust for your preferred side isn’t as easy as it sounds. Just try it a few times and you’ll get the idea - it’s quite awkward.
If to goal is to keep calm, collected, and execute a complex physical task, upadie down and under water, one is much more likely to succeed if one hasn’t used 20% of the available time just adjusting the paddle from side A to side B. If it’s tricky to execute a roll when practicing, it is much more difficult to do when in challenging conditions.
In whitewater, it is more likely to be necessary to roll on both sides. We sea kayakers don’t have to deal with rocks, strainers, and the judging eyes of our fellow paddlers, but there are currents, waves, and surf.
I feel it is advantageous to be comfortable rolling on both sides since I prefer to roll up on the side of the next oncoming wave (ie. threat). Since my orientation relative to the next wave is unpredictable, that wave is the threat that I have to respond after my recovery. If I roll up and my paddle is not in a position to brace against the next oncoming wave, I’m not in a very strong situation.
Of course, if you can find a way to only encounter waves from one side of the boat, I think you’ll be fine.
Rick