Rough Water: Brit or North Am?

Honda Aquatrax FX12
with surf kayak attached to rescue sled…remote breaks…! Any kayak without rails and fins is boring…My mini vans better than yours! Just teasing, as it can all get way too serious. Nothin really new in sea kayaks…just different versions of the same old theme. (MY OPINION) I recall my bud who was legitimately one of the foremost guys to bring flat hulls to WW over a decade ago. Stood beside him at a demo where he had a glass version of a flat hulled WW boat. Reps etc… were all over it saying it couldn’t work in plastic!! I’ll never forget him looking at me and saying “In a couple of years everyone will have a planning hull, and you’ll be hard pressed to buy a rounded hull”



I look forward to this happening with sea kayaks. But, I’m not sure the very traditional sea touring market would accept anything other than “the norm”. Hats off to Valley for the Rapier! We need samo of dat!

Both
I’ve had my CD Extreme in 6-8’ atlantic swells and have had my WS Tempest 170 in 3’ waves on the Ches. bay. They both handled superbly.



If I had to make tracks in rough water, I’d go with the Extreme. If I was playing around in rough water (like a tidal race) where maneuvering was critical, I’d take the Tempest.

Tell Your Bud…

– Last Updated: Mar-31-06 8:41 PM EST –

Why cede to Brits?

It seems two folks were playing with planing hulls at the same time. I take it your bud is the more soft spoken one. That first plastic planing hull is still being used my some, including some of my surf buds, to RIP the waves. He needs to push for a new surf specific plastic hull. I really think there is a growing market for one.

BTW, the Rockhopper 360 is marrying the planing hull to a "sea kayak" type playboat, e.g Coaster.

sing

OOOOH SEENYOUR SING…
My butt wishes it had YOUR butt’s “problem”.



Maybe that’s why I don’t think my Percaptionm Eclipse is quite as large as a lot of our group sees it…



And I’m figuring my butt’s got a lot, ah say A LOT!, of company out there, too…!



And not JUST when contemplating our next ‘sit-in’ (remember those?) to



PADDLE ON!

Am i to understand that Brit boats
don’t have rudders? And if not, do they have skegs?



My friend Franz thinks his folding kayak is superior to any hard shell boat in rough water – because of the way the boat flexes over waves. Instaed of getting pushed over by them.

Extreme
how is it for loaded touring? Seems to me that’s one of the better cruisers around.

I’ll bite
So why would I want a flat bottom seakayak - aside from a surf-specific boat that is?



Seriously, 'cus I have a lot to learn about boat design. Could you make a touring boat that would start to plane on any little following wave? Would you want to? Three retractable skegs instead of fins so you can land easier? Still be able to pack for a hedonistic trip and paddle beam waves without rocking all over the place?

Dunno
I only carry about 20-30lbs of gear when I go. I haven’t had opportunity to load it full, yet.

Rip…
That would be my bud…aknowledged as the guy who brought planning hulls to WW in magazines etc. Very soft spoken…humble…superb boater.

He’d have NO interest in poly surf kayaks, and I think I can speak for him on this :slight_smile: Take care

The Anas Acuta
(Latin for “Pintail”) dates back to the late '60s, early '70s as Valleys first production sea kayak. Rumor has it that it was derived from a 4000yr old kayak design found in a West Greenland museum. Could that be accurate?

How about Aleut style kayaks?
Several websites showing some Aleuts, http://www.arctickayaks.com/Plans/plansaleut_1.htm

and http://www.traditionalkayaks.com/Kayakreplicas/ESK0162.html

So I’ve read in several articles that the author thought the Aleut style to be more stable than the West Greenland. The logic given was that the seas in the Bering straights are much more rough than the seas off Western Greenland. They also noted that the purpose of the long up raised bow was for landing on ice flows, which are much more common along Western Greenland than the Bering seas. See photo of a bow at work: http://www.arctickayaks.com/index.html

They then concluded that the Western Greenland style found favour in England since that was the first style the English encountered in their push across the Atlantic. What are other peoples thoughts on this, British verses Aleut? And what would someone consider a modern Aleut style manaufactured Kayak?

Hope this is not really off topic.

Don

Aleuts are multi chined…
…and generally rounder hulls than Greenland styles. Tends to make for less initial stability - but also good secondary for big water paddling. The were often long and narrow. Real speed machines.



Too many other factors to keep things that simple though. The water doesn’t see the hull the same way we do - particularly when it comes to chines.



Many more recent Aleut interpretations are shorter/wider. You can also find narrow deeper V Greenland boats - some with extra chine stringers - etc. Longer Greenland qajaqs with fuller ends (no pinch) were also more common 400 years ago.



Many modern designs have some Aleut like features/hull forms. Mostly because they are sound design features being rediscovered though, not copies so much. Take a good look at a West Side Boat Shop Thunderbolt. Even my QCC 700 carries the volume to the ends more like Aleut than Greenland.

Much more recent Greenlander
Some discussions of the Anas Acuta’s history:



http://www.qajaqusa.org/cgi-bin/GreenlandTechniqueForum_config.pl/read/1582



http://www.qajaqusa.org/cgi-bin/GreenlandTechniqueForum_config.pl/read/18456



http://www.qajaqusa.org/cgi-bin/GreenlandTechniqueForum_config.pl/read/11839

You don’t wnt one

Seriously…
YOU don’t want one! You are what I’m talking about… You need an Explorer, or a CD Extreme!!! What a joke… Sorry folks, I’m not taking this seriously… I apologize… bad attitude. I admit it. Sea kayaking as it sits now in this totally BORING marketplace BORES the #@%$ out of me!! Oh, another BRIT style boring POS and WOW, how the GOOBS flock… Give me a break. Get real people…forget your gurus, and get on with it… This crap is OLD, and SOO BORING! Sorry, I know this site means a lot to some of ya’ll… So sorry…my bad!

Origins
You can find a drawing of the Greenland kayak the Anas Acuta was based on here http://members.aol.com/kayakbooks/choosekayak.pdf It’s on page 6.

Too Bad…
Guess I’ll have to keep rooting for the “brash” one. :slight_smile:



sing

Different Perceptions
about what constitutes fun playing in the sea.

All this talk about “expeditions” and “rough stuff…” I hazard a guess that more than half the folks with “expedition” boats never take more than weeklong trip once a year. At best, a day trip once a week. Most won’t venture out when winds get over 20 knots…



On the hand, folks with flat hulls are gleaming when the it’s all big and ugly out there. Salty is probably getting crusty thinking about the irony of it all. :slight_smile:



sing

Rough Water boats
With so many boats available out there it is important to distinguish between boats that survive rough water and boats designed to perform in rough water. In the design process, while it is relatively easy to design for the boats hydostatics in flat water, no program I am aware of is available to determine the effects of wind and waves. As a result many boats have enough flat water stability designed in so that they feel more stable in rough water. This does not translate to performance.



Falcon

Skilled paddlers excel in rough water

– Last Updated: Apr-01-06 9:24 AM EST –

While the boat can make a difference, it's the paddler that makes the boat, not vice versa. A boat that fits you and suits your needs is what you want, regardless of where or by whom it's designed and built.