remember
not everyone defines rough water the same…one persons paddling is someone elses SPANKING
some of this is seen by the type of boat chosen in certain areas, some types smooth out the chop better, some ride the bucking bronko better, some are more prone to pitchpoling than others…if this is an issue where you paddle, it definatly changes your definition of rough water…and your boat choice…
Best Wishes
Roy
Brit Boats Less Math
Wilsoj2,
Funny you should mention this. When I was paddling in the Hebrides last summer with Nigel, I asked him how many iterations did it take to get the Explorer the way he wanted it. Nigel’s answer was “one”. He said that if you know what you’re looking for performance wise from the kayak and have some design experience you can usually hit the nail right on the head. Since the Explorer was his second kayak, some tweaking probably did occur on the original Romany.
NJP17
Romany 16 -> Explorer
"Explorer the way he wanted it. Nigel’s answer was “one”. "
Didn’t the Romany 16 come before the Explorer? Since the Explorer was intended to be a longer Romany, the question might be how may iterations it took to get the Romany “right”.
CD Storm
The Storm is a very capable boat. One used to see a lot of them along the coast of Maine. I think the Storm may have been the first real plastic sea kayak. It is a poly Solstice.
The boat is capable of getting you through anything.
Compared to most Brit boats, the Storm has very high decks and is quite wide. There is not much that might be more capable than a Storm, however other boats might handle seas differently.
Also, many find Brit boats easier to roll and scull than the Storm.
Chipheb, there is a bit of …
emulating the veterans going on with club paddlers. I know of no pusuit that people put their passions where a little Monkey See, Monkey Do, doesn’t go on. That is so basic to biological organisms, let alone complex mammals such as humans. The club vets choice of boats often reflect back onto those that want to learn the activity as they are the nearest source.
There are the usual reasons of hull designs chosen to exploit features unique to where they paddle. The Pintail and the Romany were designed to surf ocean tidal races and run rock gardens, for example. Other reasoning may be water and implosion proof hatches, perimeter lines to ease rescues, minimal floodable cockpit volume, composite bulkheads you can hang a footpump from (and not kick out or implode from water), an accessible place where stuff you may want on the water, like a day hatch, is most of the time, recessable deck fittings so you don’t rip your clothes apart and bruise your legs doing rescues. Other reasons may be, it just looks cool, it has mystique, it’s exotic. The latter choices are valid by the way, you probably chose a mate that way, at least once.
Augustus Dogmaticus
MMVI
Yup!
The real work was in getting the Romany right.
The Explorer is simply a stretched and slightly deepened version. After all it is the “Romany Explorer.”
Like my Tempest
Nuthin’ wrong with a Tempest (except my rear hatch and that’s not a big deal). Your post sounded like you thought I was in the Explorer cult. Not that I would mind having one at all…
Have fun with the ski. Internal combustion has it’s place. My white-water buddies have been having fun surfing the wave between two ski-boats.
haresurfer - I like that.
Brit boats versus North American
– Last Updated: Apr-05-06 6:47 PM EST –
Keep in mind that "brit boat" doesn't mean "made in Britain".
The term "brit boat" is poor but it's what we have to work with.
Regardless, the way I see the essential difference between "brit" and "north american" is simply this:
1) Brit boat: short, manueverable, low volume, rock garden.
2) North American: long, large volume, good tracking, long distance travelling.
BOTH of these boat styles have been proven in "rough" water. Either of them can be used in any situation but each type is better suited to a particular sitution (eg, a short boat in a rock garden). There are also many boats that perform somewhere in between these two types (or even beyond this range).
A Romany 16 is better suited for rock gardens and an Explorer is better suited for long distance travelling.
The original Nordkapp wasn't designed for rock gardens: its purpose (long distance travel) was that of the North American (PNW) "baidarka" style kayak (but it isn't quite as big). I don't concider the Nordkapp a "brit style" kayak even though it is British and was early and was influential. Valley calls the Nordkapp a "brit style" boat for marketing purposes. The whole "Nordkapp" thing is confusing because the current Nordkapps are quite different boats from the original (which was, apparently, quite unstable unloaded).
The boat that epitomizes (to me) the "brit style" is the Romany 16 (not the Explorer). The Romany popularized the alternative to big, high volume cruisers (like the CD Soltice). The Romany may not have invented "brit style" (short, manueverable, snug fitting) boat but it popularized it.
The P&H Serius predated the Romany and is a "small" boat but is too twitchy for non-experts. The Anas Acuta (a great boat) also predated the Romany but wasn't "popular", probably, because it's odd to sit in.
The Romany was the inspiration for boats like the Avocet, Tempest, Chatham, etc.
Some Brit boat stuff
The first 16’ British day boat was the North Shore Shoreline. This boat still exists, predates the Romany by a bit. In North America, the Impex Montauk is this boat.
Valley’s first attempt at a British style day boat was the Pintail.
Though the Romany, which is a 13 year old model, had greater impact on design on this side of the Atlantic than either of these boats.
Valley and Peter Orton refer to the Nordkapp as the first British style kayak because it is the first boat to take the attributes of a West Greenland boat, via the Anas Acuta, and make changes that would become characteristic. He particularly points to the softening of the chines as being an element that seperates Brit from Greenland. I think Valley also considers it the first such boat specifically designed for open crossings. Valley puts the Anas and Q boat in their ‘Greenland’ catagory.
Though the Romany was a more popular boat from its first introduction, there a many Nordkapps of significant age around. (I was looking at a quite seasoned HM up at Lake George this past Autumn.)
The Romany is genetically related to the Anas Acuta via the Pintail. (There are a lot of Pintails around, some rather old) The Nordkapp was designed using the Anas as reference long before any of the boats mentioned.
I agree that in the contemporary imagination most paddlers probably think of the Romany (or Explorer) as the archtypal British boat. For whatever reasons, deeper in my mind and memory is the distinctive image of the classic Nordkapp.
One of my early posts years ago when I started spending time on p.net, was asking why everyone was writing about the Explorer (a boat which at that time I hadn’t knowingly ever seen)wheras I thought the Nordkapp was THE expedition boat of choice - I knew and could recognize a Nordkapp.
This may be a case of “things look different depending on where you’re sitting.”
- Brit boat: short…
In addition to the Nordkapp, there are numerous Brit boats that are not short:
The only Valley boat under 17’ is the Avocet. The only NDK boat under 17’ is the Romany.
The Foster Legend, Silhouette, and Shadow are each 17’10".
P&H’s Quest, Bahiya, and Capella 173 are each over 17’…