rudders. yeah i know

rudder discussion
Turning personal. I never questioned the design or statements from manufacturers, and I never compared brit boats to plumb design. All I asked was if a boat is designed to track straighter because of the design of the hull, wouldn’t it actually benefit from a rudder. I brought up the qcc because in my experience it doesn’t really turn that well by edging alone. Which is one reason I like the rudder, in addition to tracking in wind. So far most people seem to disagree on the premise that turning is not that much of a waste of energy. However for me, I paddle calm large reservoirs that are turning often. Therefore if I can track straight and then lightly touch my toe on a pedal without leaning I can turn very effectively. But I am rarely fighting the conditions which in the case of the ocean, make turning seem easy. Told you people get mad.

Ryan L.

ok, you’re wrong
what else would you like me to tell you?

Not personal

– Last Updated: Mar-13-11 4:19 PM EST –

It's an honest question about why you are asking a question to which you already have a set opinion.

Reading the above reply from you, that is still the case. There is more to kayaking than going straighter faster for many people, and for many of these having to use a rudder for a turn is a real detriment. It appears that this general use and design ethos is something you don't get or have any experience with. So you aren't going to be open to the discussions about a lot of boats out there - not just the ones you mention.

So I still don't understand why you bothered to ask for input. That said, this is the last one from me.

QCC700 has rocker
The QCC700 actually has a moderate amount of rocker. The lack of flared bow/stern and plumb bow line make it appear to have less rocker than it actually does. I’ve found the Q700 quite responsive to edging.

Not mad.
Perhaps a bit vexed. You have a clear opinion of rudders, regardless of the boat. great, fine, whatever.

Many of us here have our opinion about what we like/prefer. My dislike for the QCC boats is strictly personal, but one of my friends loves his (QCC being the dominant example). I also have opinions about the words experienced and intermediate and their usage both here and in other venues and their meaning.

If you are paddling a QCC or other similar design a rudder would save you considerable aggravation but in my Anas Acuta it would cause aggravation and is better handled with body and blade control. My preference is the Anas Acuta or Nordkapp (I love the Valley boats)and I’ve put considerable time and effort into learning efficient/effective control of the boat this way, consequently I prefer boats that handle this way. I like paddling it around convoluted shoreline.

You like boats with rudders and the effortless control it affords you.

So why are you asking me my opinion?


– Last Updated: Mar-14-11 9:03 AM EST –

While rocker may be hard to measure precisely, I think the Rapier probably has *more* of it than the aforementioned NC kayak and some others for that matter (click on "Original" size below the photo to see even better)...

As I mentioned, it is actually much more lose in the water than many if not most touring kayaks. However, this is masked by the fact that it turns relatively slow due to its length and that when put on edge it does not get nearly as much of its ends out of the water as a kayak with pinched ends and fatter middle would. So, while it can't turn on a dime, it is actually very easy to steer (e.g. little effort needed to change direction).

Greyak !!! : 0

Surf ski’s have rudders
because they don’t like to be leaned…

Ugly ?
Andy ther is a lot of ugliness in the world today. I looked in the mirror and almost had a stroke.

No, they have rudders, so the paddler
doesn’t have to waste correction strokes just like all other ruddered boats.

Jack L

I’m afraid I don’t understand this reply…

e.g. are you paging Greyak? am I channeling Greyak? do you think I’m Greyak? etc…

Hope this slots into the right place…
Yes, paging Greyak.

When rockers were being compared this is right when he would come in to eloquently explain the QCC rocker as compared to other boats … It was very to the point and needed here in this thread IMHO.

and I agree completely…

Not so
Try a little lean–it works splendidly. Rudder, lean, and paddle are all tools for keeping the ski pointed where you want it and efficiently getting and staying on waves downwind.

with the right paddler

skis are leaned
Edging a ski works great in concert with the rudder and often is necessary because the rudder alone will stall in certain conditions/situations.

Aloha Dl !

rudders etc
I got much enjoyment when reading "Boats that made History from 2011 Canoe and Kayak.

A great picture of Paul Caffyn paddling the legendary NORKAPP kayak…of which midway through his circumnavigation of Austraila, he had the boat modified with a “heavy storm rudder”

that about sums it up for me.

Aloha Pat!