?s for anyone who's done the Allagash...

And now I just found out about…
Johnson Pond! There’s a put in there! Anyone ever done that one? Then into Allagash Lake and well then comes, how do I get out to finish the rest of my trip if Allagash Stream is not happening…The portage to the trams then, which I am hoping will be easy to find.

That road is not a legal access point

– Last Updated: Mar-12-10 6:26 AM EST –

to the Allagash Waterway. The road that crosses Allagash Steam is not a designated access point.

There is no portage along Allagash Stream from Chamberlain.

The gated road portage that I referred to is the long one from Round Pond/Ciss Stream.

Johnson Pond

– Last Updated: Mar-12-10 6:35 AM EST –

Johnson Pond is likely doable, but it is a long rough ride in there. You could probably scope out the Round Pond Portage on your way. The outlet from Johnson Pond is about 5 ft wide and travels through the alders.

You seem to have a tight schedule. Keep in mind that travel on the roads up there eats up a lot of time, especially after you get off the main ones like the Golden Road and Telos Road.

Hmmm…

– Last Updated: Mar-13-10 5:50 AM EST –

I am def leaving out Chamberlain Lake, I have decided, so not worth it...Plus 10 days is still pressed for time, even with losing Chamberlain, just coming from either Johnson Pond or Round Pond/Ciss Stream? I still wouldn't have enough time to do that with 10 days? I guess I could try talking my friends into more time.

So now I'm trying to find the details on doing either of those, Johnson Pond to Allagash Lake or Rond Pond/Ciss Stream into Allagash Lake. What are the details of both of those and in your opinion, which would be better, easier, take less time to do kayak wise, take less time to drive to, all that, or you said I go right past the Round Pond option on my way to Johnson Pond? Just how much further is Johnson Pond from the Round Pond put in? Although, The Round Pond/Ciss Stream option is the one with the 4 mile portage correct? Which I did hear was an easy walk, just maybe not so much while rolling kayaks, so that may be out anyways. And Johnson Pond doesn't have a portage, just in Allagash Lake from Allagash Stream and then out the lake from the stream on the other end.

So that portage I had read about somewhere that I thought existed to the trams is not an option as it really does not exist so the only way out from once I am in Allagash Lake to get back onto my Allagash trip since I do not want to back track the way I came whether it be Johnson Pond or Round Pond/Ciss Stream and have my trip then end...I do want to continue on with the regular Allagash trip and end at Allagash Village no matter what, so my only option is getting down Allagash Stream...So if it's not passable well then, no matter what since that's my only option if I want to continue on that trip, I'm getting out and pushing the kayak along through whatever there is of water then, that's correct?

So either put in I use, I would meet up with the shuttle on the Golden Road? Or drive to either of these put ins, whichever I decide on and then have my vehicle taken to Allagash Village for me?

And those are really my only options correct? Are there others I do not know about? Or Indian Stream put in to over Lock Dam and then well, I was chancing coming back on Allagash Stream anyways, so guess I could just go in it and come back out the same way then, so that could always be my stand by if Johnson Pond or Round Pond/Ciss Stream can't happen for whichever reason(s), I'm thinking.

Also...Can you elaborate on this..."There's an old Wagon like the on at Churchill is up in the woods"...Sounds interesting and I'd hate to miss it!


Well thanks again for all the help! I just know that I def want to see Allagash Lake and really want to get it added into this trip and of course the best and possibly easiest way that I can.

Confusion
Please read the above descriptions carefully, there is a lot of good information there, but you are mixing up the details.



Do you have a Delorme Atlas? Get that out and read the above posts while referring to the atlas.



There is a great portage at the tram between Eagle and Chamberlain. There is no portage that runs along the entire length of Allagash Stream.



You need to talk to a shuttle guy and see what they can do for you.



10 days may be enough. Have you been on an extended trip before? Can you get 10 days of food in your kayak? We can’t predict the weather and we don’t know anything about your boat or abilities. Sit down with the maps and work up a trip itinerary with mileage, days, campsites, layovers etc. Coming from MA, plan on 10 to 12 hours with a last minute provision stop just to get to your put in. More if you are leaving your car in Allagash Village first.



If you want to do Allagash Lake, and you find someone willing to get you to Johnson Pond, I think that may be the easiest way to go in. I have not paddled Allagash Stream to Chamberlain, but I suspect in is a shallow Maine Stream in parts and you may end up walking and dragging much of that in the summer.



Read, “Survival of the Bark Canoe”, by John McPhee for an in depth discussion of his slog up Allagash Stream.


Round Pond= not best place for tent…etc
Just my $.01 heads-up on Round Pond for NOT tenting near in hot weather.

By chance…if temps are hot…with mud-bottom Round Pond exposing some shoreline…the no-see-ums can be HOT around there. Try to finish any hike into Allagash Lake before set up camp…or whatever.

that could be said for anywhere
along the allagash in late June to mid July—blackflies are killer in the whole Maine woods–not just Round Pound

Well…
I’ve got it narrowed down…I can either go put in for Allagash Lake at Johnson Pond, but I heard from Gil himself that Johnson Pond can be quite difficult and he suggested a put in on that part of Allagash Stream…Not the Allagash Stream that connects with Chamberlain but the Allagash Stream that connects with Johnson Pond, he says that one has a put in…So to put in there, do Allagash Lake for however long and then head out the other side of Allagash Stream, go over Lock Dam or do that portage to behind the tram, whichever and continue on my way. Do you guys know about that other Allagash Stream put in? And I am def going to show all of this to my friends because they’re not factoring in driving and I’m not the one driving, otherwise, if I were, I’d go up early morning the day before, get all the driving done, then start the trip and same with the end of the trip, camp again before coming home…But I’m like whatever, it’s them driving and they want to leave about 10pm the night before…Personally, I could never do it, I could not kayak after all that driving, not sure, maybe they plan to nap while the shuttle brings us up, I’m not even sure just how long the shuttle trip is going to be! I figure ok, 8 1/2 hours to get there to the Golden Road…We leave at 10pm, that’s, well prbly not 6ish but more like 7, stops for gas and what have you…So 7am, not too shabby…Then the shuttle is how long? Another 2 hours? So 9am and that doesn’t sound too bad, again, I’m good cuz I’m not the one driving, but if I were, I’d either find a campground for the night before, or I’d get on the water and pull over first site I saw and do many miles the next day, but we’ll see what happens. Please let me know if I should be planning in another 4 hours or so for that shuttle cuz as of now I’m and more importantly, the friend(s) driving are under the impression that the shuttle will just be an hour, no more than 2 tops.

Btw…2 more things…

– Last Updated: Mar-14-10 5:13 AM EST –

I am going to closely reread these and I do reread them here and there but I have plans to meet up with one of those friends next week and we're going to really sit down and go over all this, so it'll make more sense to me and it does the more I read it.

Also, I am under the impression, well hoping, that they change the kayak size rule on May 1st as I heard they may be doing...Because I was just hoping to go in my trusty Clearwater Nunu, which is now considered too small! And I understand now why, cuz they don't move fast enough to get me off the big lakes fast enough...But I'm not even doing Chamberlain and I paddled hard across the Chesuncook and was totally fine, so I'd love to bring my kayak and say it did this trp...Plus I'd also love to not have to rent one for 300 bucks! But that's my plan b, if the rule is not changed, I will just rent. I can pack surprisingly light...The stuff I'm reading that some people bring on this trip...I mean, I don't even camp that well with my good size SUV sitting right there! I had extra room left over in my kayak that I noted from my last trip, granted this one will be 3 times as long, but I can fit more in...Only what is REALY needed! And a tarp, ok I don't have room for that...But it's going in a friends bigger kayak. Pots and pans, I wasn't even going to bother with...But I have a small of each and a friend can take that too so ok, I'll bring them...No fresh meat though! We cannot be bothered! And if they need it, there's beef jerky and canned stuff! I'm bringing those small and thin packets of tuna, a thing of canned chicken, a couple soups, rice, oatmeal, granola and packs of nuts, non refrigerated cheese, Luna bars, a thing of peanut butter and pita bread since it packs small! I have many little snacks including dried fruit of various kinds, I'll just mostly live off that, I'm good! Seriously, even if I were going with canoes, I still would not pack even a 4th as much as I see in peoples blogs...Whole stoves??? 3 coolers??? Chairs...There's a picnic table at every site! I would still pack as light as I could...Some may be more miserable if they don't have this and don't have that...But I would be more miserable with the more work my arms had to do to bring all this and all that! So really, if I don't NEED it, it's not coming! I have one large drybag for clothes that gets put down by my feet...I have a bear canister for my food, my back hatch will get all my water, have a boca bottle for just in case I don't pack enough water, that's where most of my weight, besides me, will be, in water! My tent and sleeping bag get all rolled up together and smooshed into a large drybag which then sits on the back behind my seat...Even though it's a rec kayak, I have rigging on both ends! And a deck bag sits on the front which holds all my necessities and I had so much of that last time that I noted that I do not need much more for a longer trip. Hmm, if I can post a pic of my kayak with all my gear, I will...I see something about being a "Paddling Perks" member and I have to figure out what that means exactly.

And a P.S.

– Last Updated: Mar-14-10 1:19 AM EST –

Not sure if I stressed this enough but here's where I'm at now with trying to figure out...

In your opinion, do you think it'd just be wiser to get let off at Indian Stream and go in and out the same Allagash Stream to Allagash Lake or will doing the other one in and taking that one by Chamberlain out be fine? I also ask that because of the shuttle, just how much further does the shuttle have to go to reach that other Allagash Stream rather than just let me off to put in at Indian Stream? I do hate backtracking and would prefer to go in one way and out another...But not if it's sooo much more difficult...Paddling wise, or walking wise and shuttling wise too. And I heard Johnson Pond is out because it can be too diffiult as in, it sounds like it'd be a great option if I were doing this trip in June or earlier. Or do you not find that to be true and I should just do Johnson Pond? Oh the questions, wish I just knew, wish I just Google it all and see it all right in front of me...It'd be sooo much easier!

And again, thanks for all the help and advice because that is making it a bit easier, of course!

Are you looking at a map?
Indian Stream is on the east side of Eagle Lake. you have to cross the end of the lake do the Tram carry or carry up to Lock Dam and cross the end of Chamberlain.



Once that is done their is a six (6) miles trip upstream to Allagash Lake, then you turn around and head back down.



Their is another option to getting to your start point. That is drive straight to the start an hire someone to drive your vehicle out. The link I gave you above has that service.



Either start somewhere up on one of the Allagash Lake put-ins or just say down on the river is probably the better things to do.



As far as the little bugs, heres a trick I’ve used for the past three years. Bring the bug coils. Put out about 4 on the corners of your site so if the wind shifts you’ll be covered. I have not put on bug dope in the three years on the river. Last year I found some that look like Cattails that aren’t so fragile.



If you have to rent, look for an Ocean State Job Lots. They are selling blemished Old Town Kayaks at 1/2 price. I just bought my second 16’ Cayuga $540. Two rentals pays for it and there are 13 & 14’rs for less.

Yep…

– Last Updated: Mar-14-10 8:56 AM EST –

Indian Stream and then heading towards Allagash Lake that way is my plan b if for any reason a shuttle won't take me to the Allagash Lake put in or agree to come up and get my vehicle if we drive ourselves, which btw, good idea! Who needs a shuttle, just pay to have the vehicle taken!

And anyone recommend who'd be best for that? My friend had called Wilmer, if anyone knows him and I heard he's supposedly the best price. But Gil suggest Norm from Peletiers Campground.

Btw, it's about 8 1/2 hours for me to get to the Golden Road, about how much longer from there, roughly, is that put in? Just curious. And I was advised that Johnson Pond would be better to do if it were June or earlier so yep, I'm going to try to do the Allagash Stream put in...Then two nights on Allagash Lake, if not 3, if I can talk friends into more nights...Then out the other side of Allagash Stream and the rest of the nights for the rest of the trip. No nights on either Allagash Stream in or out? Both can be done in 2 hours or so, or no? I should find that out, that's important.

Oh and when you say "one of" the put ins, there's not another I do not know of is there? I can't help but notice I find out one and days later another is mentioned...So that's it right, that Round Pond one with the portage...The Johnson Pond option and the one stream one, correct? And btw again, anything else I should know about to not miss on Allagash Lake? Oh and I almost forgot, what was that about some old wagon along my way? I'd like to see that as well!

I was just looking at those coils and thinking, hmmm...I do believe I will get some now!

And I actually went into an Ocean State Job Lot the other day and did notice 2 kayaks sitting there...BUT they were both sit on tops actually and not the sit on top I want for when I finally go to buy a sit on top...I want a Cobra Escape...I figure if I'm buying another kayak, that's what I'm getting and not like I can bring a sit on top on this trp so that's why I was like, ugh I'll just rent then, since buying one would be double...But I have another Ocean State nearby that I could check as well...Maybe they'll have those!

Allagash Stream from the NW
You can go from Allagash Stream NW of Allagash Lake as Gilpatrick mentions and that is how I typically go to Allagash Lake, however there have been some serious beaver dams on that stretch. 3 to 5 ft high. Not much fun in a kayak. Sometimes the spring freshet takes them out. Also watch for the leeches waiting for the Tourist’s feet at the put in.



There is more that one way to get to that put in. I think it could take you 3 hours from the Golden Road, maybe 4 depending on road conditions.


Oh dear…
Well if you don’t mind at all, could you let me in on what way to travel there you prefer? I’d love to know and pass it on to my friend who’ll be driving.



Beaver dams will be annoying, but guess that means what, just dragging over them then…I don’t even see how it could be any less annoying in a kayak than a canoe, either way, annoying…But I am determined to see Allagash Lake!



Oh and don’t forget, if there’s anything I’m forgetting to see in Allagash Lake or if you know of the best campsite, please let me know that as well. I’m def doing 2 nights in the lake…So let me know if you think, go in and head left or head right as soon as I get in…Kayak around the whole lake or just head right and that’s all I need to do? And again, best campsites, I’d love to know.



Thanks!

Link
Again here’s the link to Pelletier’s



http://www.mainerec.com/pellcamp.shtml



We’ve used him for three years and will again this year.



It’s 87 miles from Millenocket to Churchill Dam and 3 hrs is about right, (for good weather). We enter Churchill Dam by Spider Lake.


Yep, got it…
And already e-mailed him…Just waiting to hear back.



But how far is it from say Millinocket to that Allagash Stream put in?

About the same.
It might be a little farther, under 100, most likely via John’s Bridge.



Are you planning on having Norman drive your vehicle out?

Well…
I e-mailed him, just waiting to hear back, I’ll call in another day if he doesn’t e-mail me back…But I’m contacting a few different places, see who has the best rates…He prbly is the best as he has a campground right there that he can leave my friends vehicle on for free, rather than pay 2 bucks a day for who knows just how many days this trip will end up being.

You can paddle…
Down to the Campground and it’s a great ride. 11 miles on the St John, about 5 sets of rapids, bigger water then at Chase. It took us less than 3 hrs from Allagash village.

I was reading that…
But I’d be too scared…Yeah I’m sure I could do it, but if I don’t have to, like with how I’m portaging Chase, then I won’t. I also read that by the time of my trip in mid July that that water is also quite a bit low and there may be some quick carrying, so then I was def like, nope, I’ll just take out at the bridge then.

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