I’m an East Coast kayaker, but can’t imagine why you’d change from a sea kayak to a canoe in Puget Sound? In a canoe you’re a higher center of gravity, more windage bc canoe sides are higher and 90 degrees to wind. Sea kayak is more comfortable, and you’d have a secure spray skirt to keep out waves. You could roll if you had to.
Of course historically (prehistorically?) there were the Haida canoes in the Pacific Northwest and the Polynesian canoes of the Pacific islanders which were used in salt water - and in which some epic voyages were certainly made. Probably similar large canoes of that nature were used elsewhere in the world as well (SE Asia, India, W Africa?), though I don’t know of any specifics.
I don’t recall ever hearing of any modern folks taking up the use of such craft recently though, and certainly not as sport/recreation. Maybe someone here has? Were “dragon boats” or similar frequently used in salt water?
Canoeing has some really deep roots, but I think its safe to say that today for salt water paddling “the kayak is king”. And for good reason.
Interesting book about the Polynesians:
Sea People: The Puzzle of Polynesia
Includes details about open ocean navigation before all the technology that we are used to came along. For example, how did they cross thousands of miles of open water and find Hawaii reliably?
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Canoes can easily carry dogs, a Coleman stove and lots of other stuff.
A spray skirt is not that hard to add.
Canoe have been used in the salt water more than people think.
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Car139, I have the 145 and 175 Tsunami. Dropped 35 lbs to 230lbs, and it feels like a different boat. I feel totally confident up to 36 inch wave and am not deterred by Small Craft Advisories on the Upper Chesapeake. As much as I enjoy the above stories, I won’t go on open sea. If I do, it would only be with an experience kayaker familiar with the area and knowledgeable of my level of skill.
My discussions with local kayakers say the bay changes below the Bay Bridge. I’ve been on the James from the ghost fleet to the Chickahominy. Beautiful river with a noticable tidal flow and outflow current. Wind of 15 mph expected and up to 20 inch waves at times. Tributaries and waterfront homes are elegant. I vacation there and the small tributaries are great places to explore. I want to explore the Pagan River. A park in Smithfield has the best EzDock style roller launch I’ve ever seen. Cypress trees, wild rice, eagles, swaths of tiny crabs that infest the low tide flats, many free launch points.
That’s some great stuff, I enjoyed that story and the beautiful photos.
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Davebart. Missed your company. Stories are good, as are pictures. I viewed the picture thread, and the first trip after that was a regularly traveled route. Midway through the trip. Something washed over me and I felt like I was tip toeing through the course. Saw things that conjured memories of childhood, found the last two blooms of a ruffle petal Day Lilly, cypress trees that I didn’t realize would grow this far north. But learned they are in Delaware. Found sparse wild rice plants that I was afraid had vanished from the river Delta.
That’s what this is all about. Recalled a post about a dead turtle, and I came across one on my trip. It made me sad, like I was too late for an event. We all pass, the point is that our time here be meaningful, for us and for others. Then it’s all good.
The breeze out of the east was noticeably pure, cooling and sweet. Then I came across a guy in a 120 who I befriended. Good day. Very good day.
Outrigger canoes of course are used extensively all over the Pacific ocean. Very popular in Hawaii. The Polynesian, Micronesian etc canoes were quite different than modern canoes designed for inland lakes and rivers. I have a Maori friend in New Zealand whose extended family owns a traditional canoe rigged for sailing; they are quite expert in ocean sailing in it, but he prefers kayaks for wave play. I’ve helped rescue a few canoists in Lajolla who thought taking their canoe out on an apparently calm day would be a good idea. Make sure you are properly equipped and get some lessons on handling that kind of craft in the surf zone, high winds and unexpected high wind waves.
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Actually the Maine Island Trail was laid out thinking of canoes. Kayaks were rare in 1988. Canoes were common and Appalachian Mountain Club ran sea canoe training … Most of the trainers were from Boston Whitewater.
The emphasis was on judgment not equipment and the mentoring was strong. I know several people who regularly use canoes. The have knowledge of the craft , the tide the interaction with wind at various tidal points, danger areas sneak routes around whirlpools and boils.
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Those ramps are known by members of our Club as “roller ramps of death”. One of our members used one a number of years ago with his almost new Kevlar kayak and it resulted in over $750 of gelcoat and hull damage. Others have had similar experiences. Those rollers are too far apart to be safely used with a composite hull canoe or kayak with a person inside. If you use one you can feel the hull flex alarmingly as you go over the rollers. They’re fine with plastic boats. Many jurisdictions installed them because they were the first launch systems that were ADA compliant. The original concept was used for jet skis which have very strong rigid hulls
We had a discussion with the company owner at the time and they’ve since come out with friendlier designs that don’t use rollers.
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This guy is experienced, informative and has pretty good content
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I’ve canoed the sounds and ICW here in NC. However, I’m pretty selective on the days and paddle like a madman to get out of any powerboat channels.
That said, I’d like to range farther afield, but I’d need a different boat, like the Kruger Seawind in the classifieds. Someone please buy that boat, I really shouldn’t, but the temptation is very strong.
My feeling about decked canoes is if you are willing to buy one of them, you should probably be looking at touring kayaks too. To me, a lot of what makes a canoe a canoe is the open top and high sides. Take that away and is it really a canoe? Paddling a Jon boat with a canoe paddle doesn’t make it a canoe and paddling a kayak with a canoe paddle doesn’t make it a canoe.
The idea of paddling a canoe in salt water appeals to me, but I’d want to do it in something like the North Star, Northwind I have ordered, not a decked canoe.
Sorry if that offends anyone, but that’s how I feel about it.
so what do you think of this guy?Zollitsch Canoe Adventures: Articles
I paddle a Mad River Monarch simply because kayaks are no longer comfortable… Too much arthritis and a joint that yet needs to be replaced. You can get the seat quite low and use a spray deck
It is designed to be single bladed as the coaming tends to rap knuckles.
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Maybe your opinion would have weight if you tried actually paddling the boats you criticize… and I am quite certain you do not have the skills to be safe in open salt water environments in something like the Northwind. Or in a sea kayak for that matter with an unsolved fear of entrapment.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion of what a canoe is, but while there are similarities between sea kayaks and decked canoes there are also significant differences. The primary one, as pointed out by @kayamedic, is the seating position. I’ve never seen or had the privilege of paddling a Kruger, but I have studied their use and development, and it is obvious that Verlen Kruger was a canoeist and developed his boats as canoes.
I have several friends that own Krugers, as well as kayaks. The Kruger with a skilled paddler and when properly outfitted is an excellent open water boat.
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Thanks for the info on roller docks. I have roto plastic, but considering other options.
Works for me on the Atlantic Ocean and Lake Superior! So I am happy and my trip doesn’t depend on what others were thinking or their experiences. Sounds mean but we are all really on our own trip.
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