Scorpio or Scorpio LV?

Personal Preference
This starts to come down to personal preference. The volume of the Scorpio is the same as the volume of the Capella 163 according to the website. The 161 would get you less volume. But the volumes are distributed differently. The hull that is better balanced in the wind will have more to do with overall hull shape. How difficult it will be to change directions in the wind will too.



You will be able to camp easily out of either of them. I really don’t know how the experiences would compare on a breezy day on the lake. I’d have to try. But two people’s experiences, given different strength, skill level, and preferences, will be different anyway. I wouldn’t venture a guess based upon the volume difference.



What I’ve found personally is that after developing some sea kayaking skills, I can’t imagine any use for a recreational or transitional style kayak. I can hop in my Capella or Dagger Halifax or Valley Selkie and maneuver them effortlessly with just a single sweep and an edge, or throw in a bow or stern rudder if things get tight enough to make folks in a group in 14 footers struggle a bit. If you have a passion for developing skills in a sea kayak, nothing else will likely do. If I’m not in a group, I’ll be able to use a little more speed, and I’ll have a blast maneuvering those same tight turns in a longer, strong tracking kayak, because it will actually require more strength and skill this time.

The flip side of it is someone who likes the idea of sea kayaking, but when it gets down to the nuts and bolts of it, they really don’t enjoy physical challenges as a part of their leisure time. They don’t end up very interested in developing a proper forward stroke, or pushing to get it stronger, so they never realize the added speed potential. They realize it takes a lot of effort and likely many capsizes to be able to comfortably edge a kayak and establish good blade control, so they opt for struggling with half-baked repeated sweep strokes to get their kayak to turn. Obviously people fit in an infinite number of levels up and down the scale, and there’s nothing right or wrong about where anyone is at. But at the lowest effort end of the scale, it’s too much to get a sea kayak to the water, it’s too hard to turn a sea kayak, it’s not stable enough, it’s too hard to get in and out of, etc., etc. The lower end has by far the most people, and the higher end gets to be pretty few.

So pretty much, no one else can determine whether a sea kayak is right for you or not. But if it is, Capella or Scorpio, get whatever turns you on. I know I would have a blast in either.

You’ll know in a year.

– Last Updated: Feb-25-11 11:36 AM EST –

The thing about debating these minor boat differences is that the only way you'll really know which one is a little better for you is by getting a year of paddling under your belt. So buy one big enough that it doesn't pinch, and small enough that you don't feel like you're up to your armpits in it. Beyond that, it's not that important for a beginner. Your skills will need to grow into a sea kayak like that, and in a year you'll have all kinds of opinions about boats. It's hard to go wrong with any of the boats you've mentioned for learning to sea kayak, so try not to fret the details, or constantly seek the "perfect" boat. Just learn to paddle.

Regarding sea kayak vs. transitional kayak - I think capefear sums it up nicely above. If you don't really want to get into learning sea kayak skills, buy a transitional boat that will be more stable, easier to get out of, easier for a beginner to turn, and easier to pack. But if you are turned onto Sea Kayaking, and want to develop sea kayak skills, then you're on the right track. Just be prepared for some learning if you want to get the most rewards out of a sea boat.

Regarding rescues, please do get some on-the-water practice before you go out in cold water. You can almost certainly find some pool lessons this time of year to learn deep water rescues. Practicing these on dry land doesn't count! :)

Yes


Very good advice, thanks.



Yes I want to get into sea kayaking. I need to learn the skills though. I like reading but will learn more and faster from a DVD or paddling with someone who knows how. I bought a sea kayaking DVD a year or so ago. It has great info but it is just the basic’s, made by Dolphin’s eye (I think), its a husband and wife from Maine. Anyone know of any more advanced DVD’s out there? I’m in PA and checked into some paddling clubs in the area but they look like they are mostly into whitewater.



My wife just got home from work and informed me that I have to keep the Scorpio because she ordered a Brunton 70p compass for me today. LOL

Learn some whitewater

– Last Updated: Feb-25-11 6:47 PM EST –

Do get some WW lessons - it's a great prep for sea kayaking. It'll prepare you better for things like surf and tidal areas than the typical learning path for long boats. Just don't get caught up in the BS that you hear from some that all sea kayakers can't roll or handle anything white, and be aware that once you learn long boat stuff you'll have some rescue options that aren't available in moving water.

It is far more important to get good feedback from a real person when you are first learning, to reduce the likelihood of learning bad habits, than to worry about what kind of kayak you are in. And you'll find out that WW can be a hoot, and that WW boats are really cheap used, maybe eventually be able to mess around with both.

Paddling is all good, and cross work is the best way to go.

Update!


I solved my problem…Bought my wife the Scorpio LV.

Genius!
I just ordered (my wife) a Delphin. :smiley:

Genius!
I wish they made the Delphin with a rec boat cockpit. It would be perfect for the waters I paddle. It seems odd to me that must current white water boats have huge cockpits for easy entry and exit but sea kayaks that rarely go in rapids have much smaller cockpits making them unsuitable for river portaging and log jumping.

Same as ww cockpits
The delphin is basically a whitewater cockpit. You can’t get sufficient contact in a huge rec cockpit, so sea kayaks and ww kayaks need to have moderate sized cockpits.

Enter the Zephyr -:wink:
I wish I could buy my wife a boat or two, he-he …



Any way, the Zephyr has one of the largest sea kayak cockpits yet still quite snug and secure when upside down or edging hard -:wink: At least for my bottom, YMMV.



By the way, I paddled the Delphin very briefly in the pool back to back with my Zephyr and I have mixed feelings…



The Delphin is a little more maneuverable from the bow without edging but not much. I did not think it turned any better when edged, where the Z does turn fast when edged.



Probably surfing the D there will be a difference, but just paddling it in the pool I did not think there is that much of a difference in terms of maneuverability. Both beat in terms of maneuverability (and comfort for me) the Avocet I tried.



The cockpit is a couple if inches shorter on the Delphin though. Outfitting is a personal thing, and I liked the Delphin’s thigh braces (in the knee area) a smidgen better than the Z, which can use knee bump for my long legs (the Delphin’s owner liked the Zephir’s better, and he knows both boats well, so it really “depends” on the paddler).



I thought the Zephir had a more comfortable back band and was generally better suited for layback rolls with a lower/more comfortable rear cockpit edge. While not high, the rear deck of the D as edgier and probably a little closer to the back than the Z.



And that hideous slider on the P&H skeg that felt like it would break every time I pinched it. It did not and it seems to workthough. The skeg blade seems better hydrodynamically than the one in the Z and at least goes down straight, unlike the Z where mine has such a curve to it (heat warped) that I don’t need to edge to make a right turn -;(



Would love to take the D. on some open water and white water/small surfing to see how it compares to the Z there… If it maintains better steering from the nose there, as I expect it would, I might trade the Z for a D…

Get it on a wave
The delphin stands out when surfing. That funny shaped bow is magical.

That’s what I’m looking forward to
Hopefully I’ll get a chance in the coming months. I need something that surfs well and handles currents well since I almost never would paddle it on flat water. The Z has so far been the best I’ve sat in for that putpose and for my size/shape. If the D is something that might beat it there I’ll be getting one -:wink: Both are adequate for group paddles where no one is racing but they both are pigg-ish to paddle faster than at a relatively slow pace…

another update!


After paddling my Scorpio, my Scorpio LV, and my dad’s Capella a few times I didn’t see much difference in fit or ride between my Scorpio’s. I liked paddling the Capella and figured having 2 Scorpio’s was silly so I swapped it for a Capella.



So now I have a Scorpio LV and a Capella and love them both.