Scout kayaking trip planned this week in the extreme PNW heat--need advice from experienced kayakers

@SeaDart said:
You may be aware that the LDS church that sponsors many scout troops (until recently) has had several deaths from heat exhaustion in summer trek activities when untrained leaders pushed on when they should have quit so make sure your kid and husband are prepared to bail and have phone numbers and transporation if they decide it’s not worth doing.

Yes, actually, this is why I am panicking about the heat. My friend lives in Arkansas and had a friend, 29, mother of 2, die on the first day of a trek a year ago from the heat. I realize they weren’t in the water, but heat related deaths are a real concern.

I live in the very SE corner of NC, and we’ve had a hot summer. I had family here a couple weekends ago. We were having temps around 95 with reported heat index well over 100. One morning, I sat up a large tent on the beach, as everyone wanted to spend a day on the beach. These folks are from South Dakota.

Even here, with ocean temperature around 82, the sea breeze feels quite nice in the afternoon. But I also told the story I’ve heard about how a frog, if you place it in a kettle in some cool water and put it on the stove, it will just sit there while the water heats up and boils. I explained people aren’t always that different. Many will sit hot under the tent until they feel miserable in a few hours, and then retreat to air conditioning. I insisted that none of them allow themself to sit there and feel like they’re enduring heat. Get up and get wet in the water, and you’ll be perfectly comfortable. Don’t allow yourself to feel warm. Don’t allow your swimtrunks to become dry. I filled a large cooler full of plenty of ice water, and every time someone came back from the water, I handed them bottles of water.

To skip to the end, everyone hung out there all day, and I didn’t hear any complaints.

I would suggest that I could do that paddle, and never feel hot. The trick is to manage people. I think it is very normal for people in unfamiliar activities to lose track of the basics. Also working against you is that getting wet might be initially uncomfortable, so it is, as a matter of human nature (and amphibious nature) quite possible that individuals could work themselves into heat exhaustion sitting on top of cool water. But it is also, as a matter of simple facts, a stupid thing to do. Everyone does stupid things at times. Create an awareness among everyone, and especially the leaders, to keep an eye on one another and on the kids. Don’t ask if they’re hot. Do a group activity to get everyone wet, and additional ones to keep everyone wet, whenever heat may be a concern. Don’t ask the kids if they’re thirsty. Hand them water and joyfully encourage them to drink up, and drink plenty.

I would suggest against “survival” water on something like this. Have plenty more than enough. Last weekend, I was through 3 bottles of water after 3 miles against the current on a hot day. Growing up on the farm, some used to say that when you approach having gone through 2 gallons of water, it’s time to start taking it easy.

Nice thin white cotton or linen are great for keeping cool. Get them wet, and when they start getting dry, get them wet again.

People should be far smarter and more adaptable than cancelling this trip for unbearable heat would suggest.

The currents also may not be exactly as one would expect. I seem to remember above Portland on the Columbia, it was always a downstream current no matter what the tide was doing. Between Portland and Longview it was either downstream or stoppped. Only below Longview would we feel a tide reversing the currents.

The downstream currents are mostly due to flow through hydro power plants. We saw stronger currents during week than on weekend. With the high temps, presumably more people will be using AC (those that have - may not be that common in your area), so there could be higher power demands so more downstream flows. This will be good for them to help move them along. I seem to remember getting an extra 1-2 mph on average of speed when with the tide.

Thanks everyone! I appreciate the time it takes to explain and you all made great points and my husband read the whole thread. They are making the attempt and heading out in the morning.

By all means plan on paddling in the morning and don’t worry about the heat. Hopefully it won’t get as hot as they are predicting, but in any case, it will be much cooler on the water. There are plenty of great beaches along the way and a lot of spots will have trees for shade. I would recommend that everyone have sunglasses and wide brim hats with a chin string to keep from losing it when the wind comes up.

The other day I paddled downstream with a guy that was heading for Astoria and he had a GPS that indicated we were moving at more than 6 mph and we were just poking along. The group should stay fairly close to shore, so the current won’t be much of a factor anyway. I would be more concerned about the wind in some spots. Be sure the kids know how to feather their paddles if the wind kicks up hard.

Be aware that when the current is running downstream, there are some places where you will encounter tide races and even some very turbulent spots that can be upsetting with large whirlpools, like around Trojan. Don’t panic, stay loose and don’t try to over-correct if the boat makes a sudden course change. Give all jetties a bit of a wide birth especially if the current is strong. It can get very turbulent at the ends. Do not try to cut through jetties where there might be missing pilings.

I was a Scout leader for 10 years in SE Texas . We camped every month but in max heat it was always on the water and there was NO strenuous exercise.
Unless the boys were very acclimated, I wouldn’t do it. If you have never experienced that kind of heat, you don’t know what you should feel like until it’s too late.
Heat injuries need immediate cooling and how can that be accomplished? How available is emergency response?
In those 10 years, I never cancelled an outing but dehydration scares me.

Today is Tuesday, Aug. 1 and it looks like it’s topping out at about 93° on land in the Longview area. It’s quite windy, so I’m thinking it should be tolerable on the water. Tomorrow is predicted to be around the century mark but it should still be good on the water–especially after you reach Wallace Island west of Longview.

Which day is the group leaving Portland on?

Which day is the group leaving Portland on?

They left this morning. So far so good. My husband said it is much cooler on the water than he expected. But today isn’t the hottest day, only around 96. The next 2 days are the hottest. Here they are when they left today. Wish them luck. They started at Willamette Park and I went down to the Morrison bridge to take some photos and they were making good time. I will be warning them about the jetties you mentioned–thank you.

As a teacher who is responsible for large numbers of kids, and who does a lot of activities outside (biology)…you won’t want to hear this, but…safety comes first. Sometimes you just can’t do what you’ve planned if nature isn’t in the mood. As disappointed as you’d all be, it’s nothing in comparison to what you would go through if someone avoidable were to happen. Can’t like scared, but gotta live smart. I have seen colleagues go through it…wouldn’t wish that on my worst enemy.
That sounds just too hot for kids (and adults) to be exerting…with or without experience. Just my take on it.

Edit: Just saw your last post…so…I’m late to this party. Hope they have a safe and fun trip!

@jbear said:
As a teacher who is responsible for large numbers of kids, and who does a lot of activities outside (biology)…you won’t want to hear this, but…safety comes first. Sometimes you just can’t do what you’ve planned if nature isn’t in the mood. As disappointed as you’d all be, it’s nothing in comparison to what you would go through if someone avoidable were to happen. Can’t like scared, but gotta live smart. I have seen colleagues go through it…wouldn’t wish that on my worst enemy.
That sounds just too hot for kids (and adults) to be exerting…with or without experience. Just my take on it.

Edit: Just saw your last post…so…I’m late to this party. Hope they have a safe and fun trip!

Thanks for this even if it was late. My feeling as well. Today was going to be a trial day and if it felt off, they would bail at the end of the day. Other than battling the wind, it has been fine temp wise. My husband isn’t afraid of peer pressure if he feels unsafe. Luckily they have cell service.

How are they doing?

@string said:
How are they doing?

Thanks for asking! The heat hasn’t been a problem on the water after all. They are staying wet and it’s been fine. They’ve also had to get up at 5:00 am to work with the tide and wind, so it’s cooler anyway. Stopping all afternoon to swim and stay in the shade. That’s actually been the hottest part–on land. The wind was a huge factor the first day on the Willamette, but it’s been ok the rest of the trip because of the early morning paddling. We’ve had haze here from the wildfires in Canada and the air quality has been listed as “unhealthy” (red category) but no one in the group has asthma so they just kept going. I’m picking them up around noon tomorrow in Astoria–I’m glad it’s over and I hope it was fun overall despite the heat and smog.

You’re a great mom, DinaJ. Sounds like they had an excellent adventure!

The tough trips are the memory makers.
When we had one, new boys would show up at the next Scout meeting.

No worries, the west wind took care of that smoke from Canada and we’re back to a silver moon, a yellow blazing sun and blue skies. Hope they get that fire up there put out before the wind shifts.

They got those young people out of bed at 5am? Congrats, sounds like things being well handled.