heading in and lining up
Thanks for the good points, up-a-creek. I confess I’ve never tried just sliding in feet first. And you’re right about getting-r-done rather than screwing around. It is worthwhile - don’t you think? - pointing out that rolling up into the oncoming waves will work a lot better than trying to roll up on the other side. If you know where the waves are coming from and you have a roll on both sides, then just do it. But without a lot of practice which makes both perfect and automatic, it’s good to point out that you should set the paddle up on the side of the kayak that is towards the oncoming wave train.
Amen, Bro
And ditto to your other comments on this subject about needing gadgets, and a dose of reality.
When the sh*t hits the fan, those other unprepared people some are counting on for help are gonna be white-knuckling, tunnel visioned, and probably both unaware that someone is swimming and unable or unwilling to “help” even if they noticed.
Ability to solo self-rescue in the worst conditions is the way to ensure survival in any conditions.
“full out” self-rescue?
You say that as if it takes some advanced level of skill or fitness to get your butt back in your boat!.
It shouldn’t. If this stuff is hard, if folks feel they have to go “full out” to self rescue, then those people are doing them wrong and/or seriously playing above their physical limits.
This is casual paddler/weekend warrior/weekday couch potato stuff. Less than average fitness level EASY stuff. Simple skills, minimal effort to execute, IF they have bothered to get the techniques down (and adapted them to personal situation), allowing them to conserve energy and be more relaxed doing them.
In other words, tested, practiced, so it’s familiar and any major bugs are worked out. Learned and executed as a calm by the numbers drill, not as some “full out” high effort/high stress/life/death battle (you know, like the way a lot of people wet exit as if a croc is death rolling them!).
The various methods have been refined to keep them simple AND not require any great feats of strength or agility to do them. Variations exist to accommodate personal and gear differences and increase options/odds. Pretty quick to learn, and requiring minimal practice to keep them tuned up.
As Brian keeps stressing, (simple to learn and do) technique difference can change everything, but if this stuff is still too hard to practice and get down so it’s not “full out” for some folks, then they should get out of paddling.
The folks I’m going on about are flat out unfit physically and/or mentally) and haven’t done realistic sufficient ability/practice (again, doesn’t take much) to even know, yet want equal access/equal treatment without equal preparation. Some people may feel a PC need to play along with that BS, but rest assured the water won’t be so accommodating.
As for mild water paddling for the unfit/unprepared: Pond water chills and drowns as fast as sea, and its illusion of safety makes it that much more dangerous for these types of people. At least the sea has a bit of an intimidation/reality check factor for some.
If only it were so well applied
Never hurts to bring it up. Been out of the loop? That’s cool, welcome back. Not happy this wasn’t a revelation here? Well, don’t shoot the messenger.
I should have left it for someone else to break the news, as I’m replying to too any of you posts lately and probably giving you the wrong impression, but after your teaser post/buildup and reading all that I was frankly a bit disappointed. Almost felt duped for following the link. I was hoping it really was going to be something new/little known. Something else for the toolkit. Something else to bring attention to basic rescue skills here (well, is still doing that I suppose).
it has to be said
& I am glad to be in agreement w. you, bnystrom and Kris on this issue. It is not heartless, or elitist, to speak up.
Anyone who knows me IRL knows I am extremely positive and supporting of other female paddlers on the water and off. I don’t expect them to paddle like me. Shoot, some of them are so good I can only hope to paddle more like them.
I DO expect other women to be able to meet the minimal requirements to be safe on the water. The same expectations I have of myself, or anyone I paddle with, regardless of gender.
I have studied w. great female paddlers like Jen Kleck, Gail Greene, Shawna Franklin, Bonnie Perry and many other superb Midwest female instructors. In all their classes they stress, “know your environment. Know and practice your abilities. Know your limitations. Make good judgments based on that.”
In recent weeks we have had these kind of posts, all from women:
I can’t get back into my boat
I can’t empty the water out of my boat.
I can’t drag my flooded boat to the shore.
I can’t control my kayak in river current (and
dumped into a strainer in the first few minutes)
There is a whole lot of “I can’t” there… so why is it not logical to deduce that maybe “you can’t” paddle where you want to either?
Mix in a couple of physical limitations and it sounds like the odds are getting loaded in favor of a bad outcome. Or a considerable burden for someone else paddling alongside.
Now I do understand what Celia, a modest & skilful paddler and a great online friend to me, is saying. It’s not different than what my female instructors said. We are all in agreement that people should know
their limitations and pick appropriate paddling venues and paddle in the appropriate weather/conditions.
There are very shallow rivers which, if not swollen by rain, allow a capsized paddler to stand up and walk out easily, with no current to fight -easy Class I and Class II.
There are some quiet ponds and shallow edges of small inland lakes that have many wind and wave free days which are shallow enough to stand up in. There are still, small natural channels and canals that feed off inland lakes.
Paddle there, please. Paddle with someone who knows about your limitations and has the demonstrated ability to back you up. Join a club. Take a class. Increase your fitness. Keep trying to improve.
I did, I do, I will. And despite Celia’s compliment, I’m not an aggressive paddler. Maybe a keenly aspiring one '-)
Not for anyone’s sake of “being right” but for your safety’s sake. Paddle there until with practice and with some fitness/strength regimen,
you can paddle in progressively deeper and different waters. Or if that doesn’t happen, stick w. the familiar venues and enjoy the beauty and calm of the familiar water. And come back home safe to remember and share the magic of it.
Peace,
Y’know
The reason I killed the other thread was this parsing with a word or two, that turns into an exposition in itself. And your exposition is well off what I mean or think, but I am not going to spend time on that.
You were right about one thing in a comment on another thread - this is exactly the silliness that I was going thru with Salty at one point. He had a number of opinions about what my opinions were, none of which were based on a complete exchange. Most were at least off base. That finally seems to have sorted itself out, though it did take a while.
ayup
Feet first, no reason for head in there. Good way to get conked when least needed '-)
In fact, some people are so buoyant and small, (ahem)that w. paddle float floatation they can just sort of lay on the water while the feet are going in and sink just a little bit while sweeping the paddle and hipsnapping.
agree with FF
– Last Updated: Jun-24-09 11:20 PM EST –
Just to keep with a good tone here to not delve into the personalizing of these things. The physics of Low center of gravity along with high decks, along with ratio of longer legs to shorter torso, along with (not be be funny or weird) bust + pfd means it is significantly more difficult to accomplish this.
True, if like my gf who is 5' 4" and 3'4, quite thin, and muscular and longer in torso relative to legs than average, and small proportioned, not much harder than a guy her size and weight, but even she has a more difficult time than a guy her size and weight just due to different CG.
And having taught over 500 folks, 40% women, of diverse age, size, and strength, almost all reported marked difficulty and frustration with this technique despite high motivation and persistence.
And, in the tone we are going for, I say this more in wanting to be honest and open to respecting women's experience rather than being more interested in being right myself.
And this may just mean valuing learning from women what might be most in their interest including techniques that are developed by them and for them perhaps.
I just can’t visualize that as described
I’ll look for some videos online.
I’m one of those people with zero self
rescue skills. I rarely paddle in places where I’m more than a couple hundred feet of shore. Its even rarer that I’m in boat wakes and waves. Swimming to shore has been my rescu. I’m not sure that I could even climb back up on my tall QCC 400X.
Nobody around here teaches rescues, so I’ll have to learn from books and videos.
I paddle canoes more than kayaks, these days, and there’s not much self rescuing going on there.
You make very good points about fitness and self rescue ability for safety, but that would probably eliminate about 90% of the total kayak paddlers in the U.S…
How does a heel hook help avoid pumping?
Do you empty the kayak partially before attemping the heel hook?
answer
the rescuee and rescuer work to empty the kayak just like the classic T rescue, and align the kayaks the same way (bow to stern). The difference is in the method of entry for the rescuee, who uses a hook n heel to twist and pivot inside their cockpit.
Either way there could be some pumping, perhaps minimal perhaps more, depending on their technique in getting the kayak dumped and the wave action.
The hook n heel allows you to relax and let your legs float up while you are parallel to the boat. It is very natural and secure to hook in the outer foot and it’s an easy body roll movement onto the deck. No big strength move, very quick, no shimmying around and getting PFD straps, etc caught on the rigging.
and you stay lower. Try it and see how you like it!
Ah, assisted rescue, not self rescue.
that explains less water in the cockpit.
Thanks.
Loks simple enough.
Heavy PVC Conduit and some nylon strapping.
Cheaper buying it if your time is worth anything but if you can’t get it: Make it!
Apparently everyone assumes
– Last Updated: Jun-26-09 9:07 PM EST –
that I am paddling in conditions that are beyond my ability to deal with. I am not! I paddle ONLY in calm, flat water, NEVER do crossings, NEVER paddle on oceans, ALWAYS attempt to paddle where I can stand up (not always possible, since river depths change) or swim to shore, NEVER paddle anything over Class I, and NEVER paddle over my head in lakes. What I am TRYING to do is increase my own safety by learning self-rescue skills that I most likely will never need. In other words, for the conditions that I paddle in, I am probably OVER-preparing. But it seems to me that practicing self-rescues for conditions beyond those I'm ever likely to encounter adds an extra measure of safety--which is never a bad idea. Based on where I paddle, I will probably never have to use a sling, paddle float, heel hook, roll, or any other re-entry skills/devices. But in the event that I encounter something I didn't expect (most likely a capsize in flat water over my head), I will be prepared. I want to hang around for as many years as I can; I figure practicing for the unlikely "what if's" is a good way to increase that probability.
Oh, one more thing--there also seems to be an assumption that I am learning by the seat of my pants. I HAVE taken classes. I just haven't had an opportunity to take as many as I would like (yet). Meanwhile, I'm trying to practice what I've learned. Anything wrong with that?
If you’re going to do something …
do it right!
This is what I use:
http://www.drillspot.com/pimages/158/15805_300.jpg
There’s nothing wrong with practice…
– Last Updated: Jun-28-09 7:22 AM EST –
...as long as you're practicing something worthwhile. Forget about the slings and other silly gadgets and practice proven self-rescue techniques.
As for the conditions you paddle in, that can change in a heartbeat depending on the weather, boat wakes and other factors. Unless you're in a small pond that's less than 5' deep everywhere and has a solid bottom that you can walk on, you can't assume that you will always be in flat-calm-shallow water. Also, if you capsize, you are at the mercy of the wind and waves until you get back into your boat, so you may drift into very different conditions than you capsized in. Then there is the natural tendency to paddle in increasingly more challenging conditions as one's (perceived) skill builds and you look for more interesting places to paddle.
The bottom line is that you need to be prepared to handle more difficult conditions than you anticipate paddling in. The safest thing to do is to always paddle with a group of people with good rescue skills. If you must paddle solo, you have to prepare yourself thoroughly, as you cannot assume that you will have any help whatsoever. That goes way beyond playing with paddle floats and slings on flat water. You should learn how to brace and roll in order to avoid wet exits (which should be your LAST resort), then learn to re-enter and roll (assisted by a paddle float or not), so you have a backup technique that will work in difficult conditions.
I have never once seen an interview with a rescued paddler where they said "Yeah, I was expecting the conditions to get really nasty and be beyond my abilities, but I went anyway." Of course, the ones that didn't survive have nothing to say at all...
in general
I know that most folks are going to do things their own way anyhow, so include my approach only as food for thought.
When selecting gear before venturing into the outdoors, I follow one inviolate rule- always plan for the worst case scenario and pack accordingly. Now, I agree that everyone should only go on waters in which they can self-rescue, but also know that is not the reality. When deciding whether or not to include a rescue sling I can think back to actual events in which I or paddling buds have been involved. When on a river trying to get someone back into a boat and to safety, the rescuee might be injured ( broken arm, leg, or concussion for example), exhausted, slightly hypothermic, or just plain incapable of self rescue. In these cases it matters not whether they should or should not be there, only that they can be saved. How hard is it to include a lashing strap with cam as CEW suggests? It’s about the size of a fist and weighs less than a pound! Besides, those straps can be handy for lots of other things.
Pagayeur
Bottom line, can you …
… wet exit in a controlled manner and then get yourself back in your boat (no sling - in the calm conditions you stick to) in water over your head?
Would having to do this, outside of a practice scenario, be a major event or a minor interruption to your paddling?
The stuff about conditions not being fully under our control, and making it all harder is great, but as you demonstrate it gets ignored by folks who feel they are only paddling quiet waters they assume to be safe. Wonder how many folks get into trouble on smaller lakes and slow rivers as compared to the sea because of this sort of thinking…
Fair enough
We likely agree a heck of a lot more than not on this stuff.
You just seem to have a way of putting things sometimes that gives me a way to hammer on wider points. “Full out” was pretty hard comment to pass up when I’m trying to convey this stuff is basic and takes only minimal fitness.
If I misread that phrase and my replies seem inappropriate or at your expense I apologize, but those replies are really to the wider audience, and the wider issues are what I’m interested in. That’s why I take the approach I do, not to get personal with you directly. Be nice to hear your thoughts on the points I was making rather than just their pointedness.