I’ll just stir the pot a little
I understand your concern about boat size for a small paddler like yourself, and I think you could potentially have a lot of fun in a pack boat set up for kneeling. But before you conclude too strongly that all of the “standard” solo canoes are just too big for you, watch some old instructional videos of Bill Mason solo-paddling a 16-foot tandem canoe. He was a pretty short person, and not heavy either. Actually, there are also new videos of his daughter Becky Mason demonstrating some graceful tricks with a 16-foot tandem. I’ve met her, and by my recollection she’s not any taller than you.
You’ll see that Bill Mason often solo-paddles a tandem canoe from an off-center paddling position to help deal with the boat’s width, but the whitewater video shows that it can be done while centered as well. In a standard solo canoe, the problem of the boat being wider than ideal is far less pronounced than what you see in these videos. I think this will show how “do-able” a medium-sized solo canoe would be for you, in case you have a chance to buy one.
Solo Basics:
http://tinyurl.com/pjhe9bn
Solo Whitewater Basics:
http://tinyurl.com/p8shc7l
Not fun IMO
I made my nephew a Snowshoe 12 SOF canoe which I’d guess would be similar in dimension to many pack boats with the seat on the floor.
I took it out for a while myself with a single blade and while it was doable I didn’t find it particularly enjoyable, mainly due to the high sides of the boat relative to your low sitting position. I’ve single bladed a lot in kayaks and that actually is enjoyable because, while you’re sitting low relative to the water, you’re sitting high in relation to the sides of the boat.
Kneeling in the Snowshoe with a single blade was better.
Alan
its not
Snowshoe has higher sides. Pack canoes are deliberately shallower.
Snowshoe also has no tumblehome.
There is an Argosy for sale here. It fits smaller paddlers pretty decently. I have one.. I also have a friend who is 100 lbs who has one.
Thanks for that.
I actually am very willing to buy a boat out of my optimal size range, and still have a shot on that Odyssey, actually, so keeping fingers crossed.
This thread was more born of my curiosity about the paddling style demonstrated in the video I linked to (which is apparently not as uncommon as I thought), and to sort weather, if I happen upon a pack boat, it's worth consideration. Original post edited so as to avoid misrepresentation.
At this point I'd probably even consider a small tandem.
Shallower?
According to the specs, which I'll grant may not be entirely accurate, the Rapidfire is 11" deep in the center and the Snowshoe 10".
Overall width is roughly the same but, as you say, tumblehome would help.
Alan
In OT Pack Angler
The Angler seat is pretty low. I have used single blade with it but it is awkward for distances. I paddle double blade to fishing spots then switch to single for maneuvering in smaller areas. It doesn’t hurt to have a spare paddle on board and I know that I could make it back to the put-in with the single blade if I needed.
Sounds right
but the low seat in the RapidFire elevates the tush 2 inches off the floor.
Its a well canted seat.
Single & double blade
I use both in my Rapidfire. The Single blade is my spare paddle and is used frequently on narrow winding creeks and when there are over hanging alder trees or other obstructions. On open water I use the double blade primarily because I’m not that good of a paddler with a single blade. On open water I’ll occasionally use the single blade but I’m slow with it so tend to switch back to the double. Single blade paddle is a 46 inch bent shaft and double blade is an Onno usually adjusted to 220.
Same as single blading a kayak – UGH
A so-called pack canoe is just an undecked kayak, designed as a sit-on-bottom (SOB) hull to be propelled with a double blade paddle.
CAN one single blade it? Sure, and some people in this thread say they do. Is that a functional or aesthetic way to propel a pack canoe? Not for me; I think it’s an unpleasant perversion of reasonable, much less optimal, single blade physics.
Paddling any SOB hull with a short single blade sitting on the floor is very rarely done. Just look at how many kayakers do it. Look hard. You won’t see any. Well, you may see me do it for 30 minutes once every few years just to do something different. But to trip that way, to play that way, to maneuver precisely that way, to be comfortable that way, for extended periods – NO WAY!!
If a single blader wants to kneel in a SOB hull, some sort of seat will have to be hung way up high, probably almost at the rails. This is an unstable position for these SOB hulls, designed with very narrow waterlines, and would be very unpleasant for the vast majority of paddlers other than a few advanced paddlers or racers, who probably have several other properly designed kneeling hulls in their fleets.
JMO.
I single blade kayaks frequently with
A 45" Zaveral bent and greatly enjoy it. Nearly as fast as with a double blade and turns are shaper.
My spare kayak paddle is usually a short bent ZRE.
YMMV
Didn’t like a single in Bell Bucktail.
Didn’t like a double in the Bell Bucktail, either.
the Bucktail
was an odd fish. Kind of wide for a pack canoe… I dont remember how deep but IIRC no tumblehome.
Some folks loved it for its stability
Me too
I greatly preferred a short single to a double when I still had kayaks and just wanted to take a pleasurable paddle. For workouts I’d use a double bladed wing. I hated paddling slow with a double.
Alan
Lack of tumblehome is what lessens it’s
appeal to me and it’s friendliness to vertical stroke, whether with single or double blade paddles. I think max beam is only 28".
I have read where it used to be popular to hang seats from the rails and use the Bucktail for deadfish polo. I don’t think I want to work that hard, since I have a Flashfire. I’m hoping one of my family members will make use of it.
Full disclosure, please, Alan & Yanoer
So you liked to paddle a kayak or SOB canoe with a short single blade.
How many boats have you had?
How many do you have now?
If you were buying your first canoe or if you had only one canoe, and you wanted only to single blade that canoe “in its default configuration”, which I believe is the OP’s situation, would your first choice for this single blade vessel be a SOB pack canoe or a kayak?
I’ve paddled thousands of miles in an outrigger canoe, but I wouldn’t recommend it to a newbie as his first or only canoe.
Depends on the pack canoe.
I didn’t like single blading the Bucktail because of lack of tumblehome and difficulty reaching the water comfortably. I Also didn’t like single blading my wife’s woodstrip Wee Lassie for the same reasons. I haven’t paddled any other pack canoes. Touring kayaks are a whole 'nother matter - very easy to reach the water and I get good mechanics with the right size paddle.
II own about 25 solo canoes and kayaks and experiment all the time.
The OP expressed no obligation to paddle his 1st solo canoe in it’s native configuration.
There are many reasons not to recommend an outrigger canoe to a newbie as a first canoe for paddling Michigan streams/
I quoted the OP, Yanoer
There’s always a lot of topic drift on this site.
The OP is starting threads to help him decide on his first single blade canoe. In this thread he’s essentially inquiring whether a pack canoe “in the default configuration” would be a reasonable choice.
The topic isn’t whether some of us experienced paddlers have single bladed SOBs in our multi-boat canoe and kayak lives for some reason.
I stand by my experiential claim that it is very rare for a canoeist to choose a pack canoe for his or her first, or only, SINGLE BLADING hull. Among other reasons, that’s because the SOB position is very sub-optimal for single blade power and efficiency, and also because a narrow SOB hull is very sub-optimal for newbie stability with a high COG kneeling seat.
As for the video linked in the OP, I’d put that guy’s preferences in a niche category. He starts out saying that he chooses the pack canoe because the waters he’s in are small streams and ponds. That makes sense. Why does he use a single blade? Probably because that’s what he prefers and because single blades are less clumsy on congested narrow streams. However, I’ve never seen a serious overnight tripper or day exercise paddler sitting cross-legged on the bottom of a pack canoe with a single blade. That could work for lily dipping, but it isn’t an efficient way to travel long distances or on eclectic waters with a single blade. But, of course, you could do it if you wanted to.
Finally, as to pack canoes used with a double blade, I would buy one as my first hull only if my primary paddling interest involved a substantial amount of portaging or if I had some physical limitation that required a super light canoe. Most are slow, except for the one’s costing $3000+.
Well…
Yes I have owned, and still own, quite a few different boats.
I would not recommend single blading a solo pack canoe mainly because I don’t have any experience with them and it doesn’t look like much fun. But maybe it’s not so bad, I don’t know.
Nor would I recommend an outrigger canoe to a new paddler or anyone else that wanted to paddle the waters he mentioned.
But I would recommend single blading a kayak if someone wanted to learn some single blading skills but only had a kayak available.
Why not? The low shear makes them quite pleasurable to single blade and the width of a rec kayak is about that of a solo canoe. The low seating position of a kayak doesn’t make for the best paddle angle but with a short shaft it’s not too bad. No reason you couldn’t raise the seat a few inches in a fat kayak while still retaining plenty of stability. The hull shape won’t be as refined as a fine solo canoe but most paddlers, myself included, aren’t very refined either.
Kayaks seem to breed like rabbits so the OP should have no problem finding a large selection both new or used at reasonable prices.
The worst part of the idea is having to try and explain to everyone why you’re paddling a kayak with a single blade, which, to many “paddlers”, seems only slightly more confusing than why anyone would paddle a canoe instead of a kayak.
Alan
Usually
Recommendations come from people who have actually tried aomething
Will consider
honing single blade skills in a cheap rec-kayak if I can’t manage to find a good solo hull by mid-summer.
Especially if it’s really feasible to raise the seat up.
If there are any suggestions on what to keep an eye out for design-wise with regard to a kayak for single blading, fire away.