The Fusion is a great boat
and in my opinion superior to the Dagger as a crossover kayak.
Having said that, I use my Fusion as a surf/rock garden boat with very little open water padding. When there is any distance to be covered the Fusion stays in the garage.
I would urge you to spend some time at a reputable kayak shop and talk with them. This forum is an excellent place to do research and get information, but area paddle shops may be your best source for advice.
If it’s truly flatwater and small, yeah
I’ve used my WW generalist-river kayak (6’7" long) in a WW playpark, which is along the lines of what it is meant for. I’ve also paddled it about 8 miles at Lake Powell on a calm day, plus laps around a small pond, and (ta dah) the ocean. BUT…
This last has consisted only of fairly short outings, no more than 5 miles round trip, and only on days with low to moderate wind. I also make sure to pick days and times when tidal flow is weak, which is something that you will NOT learn how to figure in a whitewater lesson. Then there’s the fact that I have more than 10 years experience paddling sea kayaks, and the WW boat came along in the last half of that.
If you are going to try this kind of thing in a boat not designed for more open conditions, you’d better pick your days very carefully. These short turny boats are pretty slow and they are a grunt to make go forward when it’s blowing even moderately hard, or when pushing out over waves.
Since it sounds like you have NO kayaking background, the above advice holds true a hundredfold. Better than just renting, take some lessons that involve paddling a boat like what you want to buy. Without proper technique, you’ll be hard-pressed to go in a straight line even when there is zero wind. It takes a while before you can make them go where you want.
So if you persist in buying a boat for looks and small size to fit in your car/apt., first spend a lot of sessions practicing in bona fide flat water, like ponds and protected sections of flat rivers.
If storage size is the problem, consider getting a folding kayak rather than a rigid one.
thanks again everyone
yeah I am going to rent/lesson next weekend. hopefully it will be on LIS (Idk where my friend goes for this but they know a place) and hopefully they will have good insight into whether a pyranha fusion is suitable for me to buy next year (after renting a few times).
Fusion would work.
– Last Updated: Sep-29-13 10:09 PM EST –
A ten foot kayak with a skeg is fine for ocean and big river paddling. You are not going to win any races paddling it and I would be very careful about going out in offshore wind conditions until you learn what you are doing. Learn how to wet exit, re-enter, and roll before you paddle alone. Make sure you have a wetsuit or dry suit for the water temperature you will be paddling in.
I often paddle 8' and 9' boats for coastal paddles and playing in rock gardens on the exposed pacific coast. I like having a small boat I can throw in my car and just go get on the water. The fact is a solid whitewater boat feels a lot safer to me in huge surf than a seakayak, a seakayak is much better for paddling against strong currents or in heavy wind, but whitewater boats are very seaworthy and very forgiving.
Take a paddling class and a rolling class.
some suggested reading
California Kayaker Magazine had a few articles that may be of interest. All can be read for free online at:
http://www.calpaddlermag.com/magazine.html
Issue 10, starting on page 6 is an article on different types of boats and what they are good at (and not good at). Others seem to have covered a bit of why not to use a white water boat for what you have in mind in other responses, but let me say again that white water boats have serious rescue considerations when you aren’t on a river.
Issue 9 (also page 6) had an article on kayaking and small living places, talking about some of the options and there pros and cons.
OK - storage the issue…
Consider a folder - a boat that can be broken down to a frame and a skin and stored that way. It will get you closer to the features of a longer boat that matter on bigger water, but is much easier to store.
As mentioned in other replies, staying within easy swimming distance of shore can reduce the risks you face and so lower the bar on boat features you should consider. But getting time in with a good outfitter to understand why would be worth your time. It is cheaper dollars than getting into a boat you may not like later.
Not law, just speed and safety limits
Shorter boats are usually slower than longer. More importantly, often, short boats under about 13-14 feet lack proper flotation (front and rear dry compartments), thus making them unsafe for rescue situations - they take on too much water if you flip and could either sinc or be too hard to empty. Even with air bladders in lieu of dry compartments you might run into issues (the air bladders need to be well secured or they could just float away, plus they never displace all the water like a dry compartment does). Boats with one dry compartment (usually in the rear) are better than none, but still pretty dangerous if you flip. The fusion will keep you upright better than most but the space forward of your feet is I think too small to effectively out an air bag there for flotation, so you rely only on the rear compartment.
Most 14’ and over are long enough to be speedy enough and have enough length for front and rear dry areas (dry is a relative term - you will likely get a bit of water in there, just enough to get things inside wet, but most of the air will be trapped and serve as flotation in case you flip).
A sit on top is also a great option - easier to self rescue and nicer in the warm parts of the year.
Venture Flex
If you like the idea of the Pyranha Fusion, you should also look into the Venture Flex. They are made by the same company (Pyranha, Venture, P&H are all related). The Fusion is a crossover boat geared more towards whitewater, and the Flex is a crossover boat geared more towards touring. They have different hull shapes- the Flex should cut through chop better (look at the bow shapes), track straighter (especially with skeg down), and go faster in flat water compared to the Fusion- so if you’re not doing whitewater or surf/rock garden, it would probably be a better choice.
A Flex was my first boat, and I was able to learn to edge, roll, etc. in it because it had proper thigh braces. It has a rear bulkhead, but you should add a front float bag. I have since upgraded to a better-fitting boat, but kept the Flex for guest use.
Good review: http://kayakdave.com/2012/08/07/venture-kayaks-flex-11-review/
Beware the bay
Having lived in Huntington Station, Long Island
and in Stratford, Connecticut I would highly advise
you not to under-estimate that large body of water.
Looks like a forgiving boat
for a beginner.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0CsAQaDp1k
(Menai straits are bit more demanding than where you will be paddling)
and here’s a beginner getting some surf experience … he seems to live.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeAdLGjQOko
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ag9IjyBbwUU
Be sure to check out how many people who post advice actually paddle in coastal waters.
To your original post - re speed
The talk seems to have drifted away from the part of your original post which seems to equate a boat being slow with it being boring. You ask if it would be boring or if you could learn flatwater tricks to make it go faster… or very close to what I just typed.
How important is speed to you? If it is of importance to your enjoying the paddle, it could shift some of this discussion.
Small Boat Shop
– Last Updated: Oct-01-13 1:16 AM EST –
I already answered your identical post on another forum and I will reiterate what I said there in case you missed it: visit the Small Boat Shop right on the water in Norwalk. They'll tell and show you the differences in kayaks for use where you'll be -- they also sell a lot of used and consignment boats.
Listen to what people are telling you here -- I don't care how "sharp" you think the Pyranha's look, they are NOT designed for the waters you are contemplating and will not be enjoyable to use. I've paddled in the Sound and down the CT river. Even the 14' kayak I used my first time out along the coast felt a little short. Depending on your body size and skill level, you might need up to a 17' touring kayak, though a 15' serves most average sized people.
BTW, "freestyle" kayaks are for whitewater, not flatwater. Just like a 125 cc dirtbike is not the right vehicle for an extended trip on a high speed interstate, a freestyle kayak doesn't have the performance factors for wide deep rivers or coastal sea waters. Form follows function.
You can easily carry one on a Civic with a normal roof rack. I have a friend who hauls an 18' kayak on a Smart Car. No kayak that fits inside a sedan is seaworthy, unless you get a high end folding kayak.
YOu need to get in some boats on the water and feel how the shape and length affects the performance. A 7' kayak in the ocean is like trying to navigate with an inner tube.
Venture
If you do look at Venture kayaks, try to find an Easky 15 or 15LV (unless you are over 200’ or 6’ – the LV would be too small) and try one of them on the water. Very fast and nice handling boat for the price – in fact one of my favorite coastal and river touring kayaks. Fully equipped for the ocean with dual bulkheads, thigh hooks and deck rigging and most models come with a skeg. Lighter than most mid range touring kayaks too – 49 lbs for the 15 and 44 for the 15LV.
It looks good too (wink).
Inside your Honda civic??
Well, that would be an inflatable.
The only small kayak I’m familiar with that is seaworthy in rough water is the Delta 12.10. It’s more stable than my 15.5’ sea kayak.
Flatwater tricks
You can learn a lot in a whitewater playboat on flat water. Edging, rolling, turns, pivots, stalls, cartwheels – it is POSSIBLE to do all that without moving water.
But I wouldn’t recommend it, especially for a beginner.
If storage in the car is a high priority, a sectional might be an option:
http://www.woodenboat.com/boat-plans-kits/shearwater-sectional-sport
To be clear:
People are being jerks here because they care about your safety, which is a legitimate concern. It’s well-intentioned.
too dogmatic
Seadart’s advice seems to differ, and so does the Broze’s design philosophy.
Jerks?
I don’t think anybody has been a “jerk” in this exchange – so far I think there’s been a good selection of experienced people weigh in with a range of legitimate perspectives, especially from those of us who have actually paddled those waters where he plans to venture.
And you’re right – we are concerned about his safety since he has explained he knows nothing about kayaking and model performance factors. During my second outing in LIS in 2003 we witnessed several paddlers in small rec boats get dumped by a massive power yacht wake that hit them broadside out past the Thimble Islands off Branford CT. Fortunately it was a hot day in late August and the water was tolerable (though they were in shorts, tees and sandals), but they needed our help (from our sea kayaks) to empty their boats and get back in them. One of the party was too exhausted from the struggle to paddle the slow and wide rental back to shore so we took turns towing him.
Also…
Original post states some interest in speed. I asked but it is unanswered where that balance lies. But if go-straight-speed is important, short boats in waves are certainly not going to get him there.
It may be that OPer is looking for something distinct here but knows too little about kayaks to relate that criteria to the right boat.
And as said, many who replied have actually paddled that area.
well I have
– Last Updated: Oct-02-13 7:49 PM EST –
a W/S Artic Hawk--fg and almost 18 feet long--21 inches wide--rolls well but if you are not used to hard chine Greenland type boats, it will feel tippy at first (you soon get used to it) and I use it on the Maine Coast, Chesapeake Bay, the James and Potomac Rivers---similar to the CT River--and it is a dream to paddle.
The other posters are right when they recommend a longer kayak--to begin with it will track better which is important on open water and secondly it will be more stable when the wind kicks up---I'm sure that LIS and the Ct. River are very calm when there is no wind---the issue is when the breeze gets to 10-20 knots--then you want to be in something suitable.
As far as how it looks---my W/S Artic Hawk has a really sexy, sleek look to it--and I disagree with some who say you shouldn't buy a boat for the looks--aesthetics are important to many people, but don't let functionality and safety take a back seat to looks--you can and should have both.
Finally I drive a Toyota Corolla--similar to the Civic--I have no problem loading and unloading the boat on the roof of the car. Now go buy a proper ocean kayak.