wilderness first aid
I picked up a wilderness first aid book from the bookstore awhile back, and it had some interesting comments about the extractor.
Basically, it’s really only marginally effective, and you have to administer it FAST. If you get it out and applied quickly enough, it only removes ~30% of the venom. If you’re out in the boonies and need some time to get the victim to safety, that may be enough to help, though.
Don’t hedge your bets on it, but if you’ve got quick access to one in a situation, you might as well use it to get some of that venom out.
Maybe I’ve been lucky, but I’ve had numerous close encounters with rattlers and have never even had one strike at me. Education on avoidance is more effective.
coral snakes are dry land snakes.
They are very docile, and you almost have to pry their mouths open to get them to bite.
Cheers,
JackL
Hmmmm…
We have lots of big brave red necks here in the south that love to drive their pickups over Gater snakes and then brag to their kids that they just killed a copperhead.
Live and let live.
Snakes are beautiful creatures. I have handled, copperheads, and cotton mouths as well as the non poisenous ones, and yes the cotton mouth is aggressive , but why not just go the opposite direction and leave it be.
Remember you are in it’s territory. It is not in your territory.
Cheers, from an amature herpetologist,
JackL
My wife worked with a guy who
was bitten by a cottonmouth while hiking alone. He put up his tent and got in his sleeping bag. He said he spent a very bad 24 hours but walked out alone.
My Brittany Spaniel got bit in the foreleg and the doc said give him an aspirin and an ice pack. The next day he was fine , but the bite oozed ‘black blood’ for several weeks. Every day I would squeeze it and rub antibiotic ointment into it. Finally it healed but left a quarter sized scar.
Sorry any snake within two feet
of the grumman and coming at it from behind is going down.
Never killed one except in that situation Seen plenty. sometimes my cat brings them into the house, OK except when she leaves them in my bed.
Dogs and snakes
String, you brought up a point that I have been thinking about: dogs and snakes. Since moving to CO, I have been a little nervous about my dog getting bitten, especially given the area that we live and hike in. My vet said that it “usually” doesn’t kill the dog. So I was glad to read your first hand experience. And I figure that since she is always on a leash, we should be fine.
So those of you that have had rattler encounters, how far (in distance) was it that they sent up their warning? Were you right on top of them, or approaching from 10’ away, etc.? Any other dog meets snake experiences out there?
Think about it…
…it’s not in the snake’s best interest to kill
non-prey. No lessons are passed to the next
generation about avoidance.
Most dogs seem to come out OK. OK is relative.
Necrosis of the afflicted area seems to be the
biggest problem.
The treatment seems to be mega doses of benedrill.
A vet is required immediately, but dogs seem to do
better than we do.
rattlers
I have encountered 2 species of rattler. One (most frequently encountered) is the eastern massassauga. I think only one out of maybe 7 has buzzed at me. They usually don’t sound a warning unless you REALLY harass them. I’ve even heard of people picking them up not knowing they’re a venomous rattler and never being bitten. I also know a guy who has stepped on them and never been bitten. They’re pretty docile, really. Not to mention they’re TINY and would have a hard time getting a hold on anything larger than your finger.
The other rattler was one I haven’t been able to positively ID. I was hiking down a canyon in southern Utah at about 10 or 11pm. I stopped at a survey point to call for owls, and as I was sitting, the little bugger crawled underneath my pack, which I had set on the ground near my feet. Turns out, as it crawled along the ground, its rattle made a little noise which I interpreted to be bugs buzzing by. I saw the error of my ways when I picked up my pack. When I shined a light on it, it bolted into some nearby brush. It was a little bugger, too…probably a foot and a half long. It could have been a western massassauga, but I’m not sure.
Fatalities are rare, BUT…
… snake bites are still no picnic, and sometimes they are really bad. Also, I seem to remember reading that eastern diamond backs are considered extremely dangerous simply due to their size and the quantity of venom that they can inject. Back to the point, I read an article in a bicycling magazine a few years ago where some mountain biker got bitten on the calf by a rattler (I can’t remember what kind) while he was riding. A piece of muscle as big as a softball just died and eventually fell right out of his leg. There’s no way to ever go back to normal after an injury like that. None of that for me, thanks. Let’s be careful out there.
You folks have convinced me…
…to stay in the PNW, and on the Pacific side at that. Saw a couple of moccasins in a slough in Houston, and they were scary buggers indeed. All we have to worry about here are giant slugs and Sasquatches. And volcanos. And tsunamis. And traffic. And neoNazis. And mountain lions. And earthquakes.
Size does not equal venom
The young snakes are actually more dangerous venom-wise than the adults. If you’re bit by a rattler (or most other venemous snakes) less than a year old and also bitten by a fully mature adult, (other than being extremely unlucky!) you’ll find that if they both deliver a high venom bite–that is to say a bite where both fangs puncture and deliver the full load as opposed to a non-venom or mild-venom bite–the bite from the baby is going to cause a lot more anguish. Just because the snake is small or juvenile doesn’t mean it’s any less dangerous. Be careful out there.
Snake bites
From what I have read, most snake bites involve alcohol, and it “ain’t” the snake that has been drinking. So chance of just being bitten while minding your own business is low. Down here in S.E. Texas we have a lot of snakes, I have never really been concerned with them, just a little caution goes a long way.
Yup
Heard a talk on venomous snakes and snakebite on a trip to Arizona. Don’t remember the exact numbers, but the herptologist said that most women, children and older adults are bitten on the lower extremities. Most young men are bitten on the hands and forearms.
Hmmmm…
Size and venom
– Last Updated: Jun-08-04 11:56 PM EST –
I didn't know that young snakes were more toxic than mature ones. Still, the dose is important. With venoms that are less than lethal at small doses (which includes most of them) the amount of venom that is injected during a bite is a critical factor in the seriousness of the outcome. As you alluded to, a snake which elects to inject a minuscule amount of venom inflicts a less dangerous bite than the same snake which decides to give you a full dose, but the same principle applies to snakes of differing size. A large snake which could easily inject 100 times as much venom as a very small snake of the same species is potentially a lot more dangerous than the little one. And a species that that tends to be BIG carries a bigger load of poison around with it, and that can make a difference.
I’ve read that the reason the young
are worse is they always deliver all they have, they do not have control yet. (Like sparring wiht most second year karate students ) Sorry I do not have source and will not be researching this.
Rattle Snake Warnings…
– Last Updated: Jun-09-04 9:15 PM EST –
I was within five feet of a coiled rattler two weeks ago...and he never made a sound. In the other hand I've watched them litteral rattle away as they moved through the grass and away from my location... I dont think there's a hard and fast rule that they follow :)
Don’t waste your money on a kit
I recently re-certified in Wilderness First Aid and we were told the same thing as in the first course I took. The best thing you can do for a snake bite victim is to get them to medical attention ASAP. Few snakes in the US are capable of killing a healthy adult, but if someone has received a fatal venom dose, the only thing that will save them is antivenom. Nothing you can do in the field is likely to make any difference.