Would Vermont Canoe’s Indy
be a possibility? Some of you more knowledgeable folks would know more than I, but I do know there is one in Apopka at Mosquito Creek Outdoors.
http://www.vermontcanoe.com/
Nope, I’ve never paddled
– Last Updated: Jan-16-10 7:12 AM EST –
a lightweight canoe for any distance at all so, although I'm far from being a novice canoeist, I'm just now entering the world of lightweight composites. It's starting to make sense that the weight of the boat means less than the weight of the paddler. I'd like to trim my weight down a tad but Guiness Stout and Chimay ale taste too darned good!
I don't really have to portage any distance, so the weight isn't really that much of a factor, although I'd like to keep the craft under 55 lbs. I don't want to enter my "golden years" and have to load a barge in my truck. I noticed that the Clipper Solitude in fiberglass is 52 lbs, which would be tolerable. Do you guys feel that gel coated fiberglass is tougher than kevlar ultralight?
I did own a Native Ultimate Elite 14.5 (fiberglass) and, although it's advertised as a kayak, it's an open boat like a canoe. It wasn't what I'd call light weight, and it didn't deal with choppy bays very well. Plus there was a lot of hull slap. I traded it for a Kaskazi Marlin for my fiancee.
I believe the notion that I need a straight-tracking relatively stable canoe is absolutely correct. Most of my paddling does not involve narrow winding creeks so, the few times I do encounter that situation, I just deal with whatever it takes to get through.
Thanks for the heads-up on the Vero store that has Wenonahs. And thanks too for offer to paddle the Kestrel and Flashfire, but I agree that they're too small for my needs.
I've looked at the Wenonah Wilderness for what seems like years, so I'll go revisit it again. Thanks for all the advice. Keep it coming.
Since I’m not averse to a commercial
announcement, I’ll suggest that you attend the Florida FreeStyle Symposium coming up in March. There will be a wide selection of solo boats there and most owners will let you try theirs. Certainly not all of the boats on your list will be represented, some will. Others not on your list will likely be available.
Additionally, several of the posters on this forum will be there and we can continue this discussion face to face.
Best of all, the Florida FreeStyle Symposium will feature some of the best instruction to be found anywhere.
More information can be found on the FreeStyle website; www.freestylecanoeing.com.
Marc Ornstein
Dogpaddle Canoe Works
Custom Paddles and Cedar Strip Canoes
Thanks Marc…
I’ll make an all-out effort to attend and hope to meet some of you guys. I’ll be the bearded long-haired hippie, if I can make it.
DRAT!!!
Wouldn’t you just know it. That’s the only weekend in March that I can’t make it. I’m one of the leaders for the CREW Marsh Wildflower Weekend in Collier County on that Saturday, and then on Sunday I have to lead a walk for Tropical Audubon Society in Everglades National Park.
I wonder if they’d move the symposium date for me??? LOL
Fishing platform
It would seem to me that an avid fisherman would be keying in on a boat that would make a great fishing platform; a solo that is steady and comfortable futzing around in while the boat is dead in the water. To me that critera would discount the more tender solos on your list. From that perspective I would say be sure to try Prism, Encounter, Shearwater, Solitude, and Magic. And if you are comfortable sitting and fishing in the others, great. I will also say that the Bell boats have skimpy seats that can get quite uncomfortable at least for someone 6 foot and over, if you are out on the water for hours at a time. Not that you can’t buy a different and more comfortable seat. Good luck and remember that only you can determine the best boat for you. You will just have to get in some solos and try them out to find that boat.
I think weight is noticeable
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For one example, I cite the difference in feel between my Mohawk Odyssey 14 and my Novacraft Supernova (by catalog specs, the Supernova is only 9 pounds heavier, but I think the actual weight difference is closer to 17!). The Supernova is FAR more maneuverable any way you care to compare them, but for typical maneuvers, the effort required in the Supernova is greater just because there's a greater amount of mass swinging around. Sure, you can make the Supernova dance a whole lot more, but getting it started into a spin and then stoppped again is where the greater effort is needed. The less-maneuverable Odyssey 14 takes less out of you after a day of paddling twisty creeks even though it "seems" to be a little more sluggish in character than the Supernova.
In general, I find that 20 pounds of cargo is more than enough for me to "feel", and carrying 50 pounds of gear is like a night-and-day comparison. On overnight upstream river trips, I typically leave my gear hidden on shore once I've reached a point where I don't need it, and pick it up on the way back. A small increase in through-the-water speed while paddling an u8nloaded boat can make a big difference in actual speed when going upstream (the mph difference is the same in both cases, but the percent increase in actual speed is greater than that of the through-the-water speed since that speed is slower, so it can really pay off to paddle an empty (lightweight) boat).
If you USUALLY carry a big load, a difference of 20 pounds won't matter AS MUCH. Still, it feels to me like everything about paddling is a bit easier when I avoid bringing along all the "extras" on a camping trip, and for me, leaving behind the "extras" probably saves 15 or 20 pounds. Just from the standpoint of logic, if a 50-pound camping load is a night-and-day difference when compared to an empty boat, having a boat that weighs 20 pound less should give you 40 percent of that same feeling while still carrying that same load of camping gear.
The bottom line is NOT that you can't use a heavier boat and do just fine, only that you CAN feel the difference.
We will have a problem then
everyone has long hair.
Except Marc.
Except Charlie.
Oh…no problem. Had it wrong. Mostly its a case of little hair.
Why the need for straight tracking?
Its my experience that most of those boats are made to keep folks happy who can’t paddle straight or for racers who really cannot afford to have any yaw in their high cadence strokes and lose seconds.
More versatile to have a less straight tracking paddler and learn to make it go straight when you want and turn efficiently when you dont. The learning curve can take as long as you want it.
Surprised
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You haven't thought about your stance in the boat or water you will paddle. Whatever.
For a slightly larger than average guy who is more interested in fishing than paddling, I'll bet you intend to sit, but not dedicate to sit and switch. [You'll cast farther from your knees, but nevermind]. You should use a bent paddle and look at 30 and 31 " wide boats.
That leaves the Swift duo, The Wenonah Argosy and Wilderness, the Bell YellowStone and RockStar, and Sawyers Autumn Mist.
Yes, there are other 30" hulls, but the Magic, Savage Rivers, and Wenonah priosm and Encounter are dedicated S&S hulls which, with exception of magic, will not turn well and are a little twitchy for a guy more interested in the Bass than the boat.
I also wonder whether, as you become
more experienced, you won’t prefer a canoe with a modest but well-planned amount of rocker. Such a canoe will still be easy enough to keep tracking on a windy lake, but will be a positive joy when you enter a sinuous channel in a side marsh in search of fish and game.
You don’t want to get into a “bass boat” philosophy. Most people don’t need an extremely fast boat just to get to a preferred fishing location.
prism
D.H.
I just sent you an e-mail about trying out a prism.
Jim
Bummer about FFS
I’ll be tootling around the Everglades in March but already we are running out of time to go Miami way.
I will have a Peregrine and perhaps a Merlin II.
Composite Guide
Just an FYI.
I have a buddy who tells me he has a Kevlar Guide.
I have not seen it but I have no reason to doubt him.
If nothing else
you guys and gals on here have me thinking differently than when I first posted my inquiry. Right now a fiberglass Clipper Solitude is on my list, where before I was looking solely at kevlar. I’m going to drive up to Vero this week to (hopefully) paddle a Prism and a Wilderness by Wenonah. I’ve seen a kevlar Prism recently but haven’t paddled either craft. Since I generally haul my canoes/kayaks in the back of my truck with a truck bed extender, I’m just a tad concerned about the length of the Prism, which would stick out a foot farther than a Solitude, and 14" more than a Wilderness. Regardless, the Prism is still high on my list.
As for fishing, most of my fishing is done from my Kaskazi Dorado kayak, but I’d use the canoe when the water’s too cold to want to get wet in my kayak, or when I want to camp & fish. Most all of my fishing is done along the edges of Biscayne Bay, or out of Flamingo in Florida Bay, but I do occasionally take my Kaskazi out to the Gulf Stream to troll for dolphin and billfish. Thus far, most all of my camping is done in the backcountry of the Everglades, or on Cape Sable. I’d like to explore more Florida rivers though.
I guess I’m hung up a little bit on speed (= ease of paddling) because of the fat slow fishing kayaks I’ve owned in the past. I absolutely love my Kaskazi Dorado because of its seaworthiness and speed. It’s not so much that I want to haul butt everywhere, but a 3 to 5 mile paddle one way to get to favorite fishing areas is commonplace where I fish, and being able to outrun inclement weather is another plus.
On a side note…does anyone know anything about blue basalt construction? Clipper offers it for at least one canoe model, but I don’t know if it’s available for the Solitude. It’s supposed to be stronger, lighter, and more abrasion resistant than fiberglass.
Go back and see Wesd’s photo
He and I both trip in Magic’s in the BW and our bud Steve paddles a Merlin II. The Magic is not fragile or tippy. I fished from the Magic with a 50-pound dog for 5 years and have boated multiple 3-foot pike (and was dragged around the lake by a 4-footer that threw the spoon at the boat). Never ever ever uncomfortable. Throw in that the shallow arch (correct me if I used the wrong term Charlie) bottom of the Magic and if you get cross beam winds the boat lightly rolls through the waves unlike a flat bottom boat (Prism) which rolls on the waves.
Yup I’m a rabid fan, but I’ve short paddled a ton of boats and every time I get back in the Magic it feels like home.
Randy
Quite a thread.
I drive a Magic in Black/Gold. I am a big guy, and I either S&S, use a 260 cm double, or noodle with a beavertail. I find the Magic to be stable, but I have the seat lowered as I do not kneel. Most of my boating is in the form of day trips, but I have also been to the BWCA and have grossly overloadedd it for extended weekends on the eastern shore (folding chair, extra tarp, firewood packed into every open space). In short, I am a fan. But I have not paddled a great many other hulls.
The experienced voices on this board have provided good advice. If you can test many hulls you will be happier with your choice.
The only advice I can offer is this: Lightweight is good. If you paid your dues when young with Grummans and Blue Holes you deserve a sub-40# boat. ANd you deserve comfort. Have fun.
Jim
John
at Indian River Kayak also has a used Merlin II in ultralight that used to be mine which I traded for another boat. Should be in great condition. The Merlin II is a sweet boat. Mention Bob in Boca sent you. For what its worth. By the way I live a street over from Bruce Gipson who I believe sells your surfski.
them boats, them boats!
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ok, i'm back. been canoeing in south georgia this past weekend. lots of opinions and good advice here already. i have two solo boats, a wenonah prism in fiberglass and a bell rockstar in royalex. both weigh approx. 50 lbs. i'm 5' 11 " and 250 lbs. both boats perform well as an all around boat, but the prism is a straight hulled, straight tracking, decently fast canoe meant for big water tripping as in the bwca and quetico. it is a bit twitchy at first but secondary stability is fine and it is a seaworthy canoe that has carried me through some iffy waves and wind without letting me down. it doesn't particularly shine on the smaller streams and rivers where quick turning is a virtue, and one needs to be able to carve the turns and have a bit of knowledge re setting up on the curves, and a cross bow draw doesn't hurt to know. the rockstar is a better river boat, with a bit of rocker making for quick turns, good initial and secondary stability, and carries a big load with decent freeboard. it however is not as fast as the prism, and will certainly not track across a lake as effortlessly but is a seaworthy craft that i've been enjoying on moving water. i've made a number of trips in the ten thousand islands and have and will continue to use the prism there. i'll not comment on the others listed as i haven't paddled them. good luck with your search.
Weight, stance, turnability, seaworthy
The OP has well thought out list of boats, and his circumstances seem relatively clear.
He says he prefers to sit and perhaps use a double blade once in a while. Hence I rule out boats that are primarily kneel boats. I think the Shearwater is a great boat and I agree it’s very sit 'n switchable. It may be a reasonable choice for a big guy. But when it comes with a sliding seat and knee pads, I characterize it primarily as a kneeling boat.
In south Florida, I would put turnability way down on my list of canoe priorities. ANY canoe can be turned sufficiently well for those waters. I don’t get the impression that a 65 year old kayaker is primarily interested in technical finesse freestyle canoeing, so I wouldn’t recommend boats of that nature.
Easy glide, easy to paddle straight, a secure feeling of stability, and seaworthiness are what I would want in south Florida. By seaworthiness, I mean the ability to handle the swell and wind waves that will be present in those waters.
Weight is crucial to me, both on the land and on the water. Unless money is an absolute bar, there is no reason to get anything other than a lightweight composite boat in south Florida. I think it’s easy to detect a 20 pound difference in boat weight when paddling empty.