solo or kayak
im torn between a kayak and the solo, im a big guy at 6’1 and around 3 bills, i was pretty dead set on a kayak but im looking more into the solo canoe idea, its hard to find a kayak in my price range, im looking to keep it under 700 and im limited to the big stores like dicks, dunhams, bass pro shop in my area, i was looking at the dirigo 12 for a yak and the discovery 119 for the solo, i know there is better to be had out there but im working on a wife enforced budget(im sure im not the only one in that situation)
Danger Will Robinson!
I wouldn’t buy a kayak or canoe at any of those places. Especially a solo canoe, which is a fairly specialized craft. Check the used market. If you just want something to float along and/or fish in, there’s no need to spend big money. Used rec kayaks and SOTs are cheap and plentiful. Just check craigslist. Solo canoes, not as much. But you could probably find a used OT Pack or Disco 119 for cheaper than a new Disco 119. If you want something a little nicer, like to actually do some tripping or develop paddling skills, you could probably find a royalex Wenonah or Mohawk solo canoe for less than $700.
Solo canoe safety
Don’t forget about canoe safety. Be aware you can’t re-enter a solo canoe after a capsize in big water without help. You can also become windbound especially if you’re a beginner.
Good luck. Solo canoes are fun.
No need to kneel to be happy in a solo
canoe. I sit 95% of the time and I’m quite happy.
Kneeling is less comfortable for me and more hassle, because I have to bring along extra gear in the form of a kneeling pad, which is usually wet when put back in the car.
You are not alone…
I too am on a strictly enforced budget (thanks Dave Ramsey) and am saving up for a solo canoe.
I had a similar quandary deciding b/w a kayak and canoe and have settled on looking for a pack type solo canoe because the weight of the seems so much lighter than a kayak.
My advice is to keep an eye out on craigslist and classifieds and run don’t when you see something that you like and is in your budget, b/c this type of boat seems to go quick.
In our area a used OT Pack went for $400 in about a day and a Wenonah Sandpiper for $500 was purchased within two on Craigslist.
beginners have done fine
I have put a couple of first timers in Wenonah Advantage solo’s and they have done fine. Several times I have taken people who were visiting from China and put them in an Advantage and never had any problems.
I DO generally take them on a slow moving river with minimal motor boat traffic and great scenery though.
ot pack
what exactly is the difference between the ot pack and ot disco 119? are they differences a beginner would notice?
Both tubs…
Virtually everyone can do better (for modest sums) than an Old Town Pack or Disco 119 - both tubs.
Two of the best boat-choice discussion threads I’ve ever seen started with query about such craft…
http://www.paddling.net/message/showThread.html?fid=advice&tid=1349142
http://www.adkforum.com/showthread.php?t=14673
Aside from being entertaining (and having a great outcome), these threads highlight considerations that might apply to anyone looking to buy a solo canoe - purpose, paddler size, anticipated load, sit vs. kneel, double / single blade and so on.
These are all matters for a separate thread: the key point to make on this thread is that there’s a world of difference between starting in an appropriate solo canoe (great idea) and starting in something that ain’t
A novice will be making life tough if starting in ANY canoe that is too small… or too big… or overloaded… or underloaded… or too rockered…or too hard tracking… or designed for kneeling and being paddled from seated… or vice-versa… and so on.
For most larger blokes, it’s pretty easy to find a solo canoe that meets requirements. The folk who struggle are the little folk: smaller women, youngsters - those clocking in at below 5’6" tall and 150lbs.
Royalex vs. Poly
The main difference is that the Pack is made of Royalex and the Disco is made of 3 layer polypropolene. I’ve never paddled either one. On paper, the Pack is 10 pounds lighter and slightly longer and narrower, which means it should more effiient in the water. In reality, I expect they feel about the same. At least, even though the Pack is the “better” canoe, there’s nothing that the Disco couldn’t also do. Unless you do alot of portaging, in which case the 30 lbs Pack is definitely an improvement on the 40 lbs 119. But both are just fine for lilly dipping, fishing, nature photography, and short canoe camping trips. You’re not going to want to take either one into whitewater, unsheltered open water, or on long expeditions. Nor would you want to do anything competitive like freestyle or racing. Yeah, I guess they are both tubs. But, again, if you’re just doing casual recreational paddling and maybe a few short trips in quiet water, and you don’t care how fast you go, the Pack and 119 are just fine. If you want flat water effeciency, open water seaworthiness, whitewater-level manueverability, or multiweek tripping capacity, there are much better canoes for that.
But if you CAN kneel, it sure opens …
… up a lot of new opportunities. It probably quadruples your maneuvering and bracing power, makes the boat a lot more stable and gives better heeling control, and on small creeks it makes it possible to quickly duck below fallen trees while on the go (with your whole body below the gunwales if necessary, or keeping the paddle in the water for for boat control if not ducking that low) and then pop right back up into the paddling position - a handy thing for preventing the current from slamming you into the next obstacle. For me, what can be done kneeling is when the “fun” starts, but I’m lucky enough to find that style of paddling to be quite comfortable also.
My mistake
It was 27 in waterline width. Wenonah Argosy.
Mark
Can Reenter with practice, but wind is
a challenge. In big/potentially big water I run float bags in my Wen Vag KUL solo. After a capsize can turn it upside down in deep water emptying nearly all the water out. Then flip it right-side up and reenter like a yak using my looong Greenland paddle and a big inflatable paddle float. Not always easy but so far always doable. I’m in ok shape for 70 but not really fit. Wind around 10-15 mph can be a challenge with canoe’s high freeboard & flat bottom, but Greenland paddle helps some. Wife does lot better with GP and slight vee in her Blackhawk solo. Wind gets toward 20 I’m headed to the beach. Looking at a very light (SOF), modified large (36"+) cockpit, low profile yak for those windy days :-). Just thoughts, R
That makes more sense.
Solo with a rudder!!!
Can’t beleive nobody mentioned it. You can be a slob like me and never learn a decent corrective stroke, yet keep up and even fly by your friends, when every stroke is all power, and steering is all done by the rudder. Don’t have to use a kayak paddle for the control, and don’t break your body down and get wet doing so. Use a good single blade paddle. Get an expedition canoe like a Sawyer Loon, Mad River Monarch, Kruger Sea Wind, Sawyer Expedition, all rudder equipped. Or put a rudder on a Wenonah Voyager or Advantage, a Bell Magic or Rob Roy, or a Saywer Summersong or Autumn Mist. All would make fine flatwater tripping canoes and would be a joy to paddle, even for beginners. I’m all about the rudders, man!
Joe
Solo with a rudder!!!
Can’t beleive nobody mentioned it. You can be a slob like me and never learn a decent corrective stroke, yet keep up and even fly by your friends, when every stroke is all power, and steering is all done by the rudder. Don’t have to use a kayak paddle for the control, and don’t break your body down and get wet doing so. Use a good single blade paddle. Get an expedition canoe like a Sawyer Loon, Mad River Monarch, Kruger Sea Wind, Sawyer Expedition, all rudder equipped. Or put a rudder on a Wenonah Voyager or Advantage, a Bell Magic or Rob Roy, or a Saywer Summersong or Autumn Mist. All would make fine flatwater tripping canoes and would be a joy to paddle, even for beginners. I’m all about the rudders, man!
Joe
If you are all about rudders, …
– Last Updated: Jun-02-12 1:21 AM EST –
... you must be all about distance cruising. That's one situation where a rudder would be a really good thing. However, to me, a canoe that won't easily go backward, sideways, or spin, is not really a "canoe", but far be it from me to disagree outright with your viewpoint. I can sure see why for some situations, a rudder is the best way to go.
no wonder why you’ve sold a few
nice canoes…for things with a rudder? Joe, not being picky…but you need to go get yourself either a sailboat or motorboat.
Solo or kayak for big guys
I had to jump in here. I’m 6’4" and 300 lbs with size 14-15 shoes. When you look for boats, be sure to check the reccommended weight capacity. You may find like i did that your solo canoe is a tandem for most people.
Kayaks I fit in are hard to find for what I want to do (whitewater and down river).
I started with an old town 147 poly. At $500 new it was a good first boat for me when I was doing mostly flat water to light class 2. Unfortunately I got careless and lost it camping after about 2 months. (anyone ever find a green 147 with 3 fishing rods on the Potomac?)
Then I did some research to find a good boat for someone my size to use for down river tripping and found the prospector style canoes. It’s great for down river and I’ve taken it through class III rapids (light ones) with some gear. On flat water with no gear and in the wind however, I get turned around a lot. I’ve been paddling less than a year without formal instruction so my strokes are still lacking.
To deal with the wind, I bought a kayak today for my short trips sans gear.
What does all this rambling have to do with your question? The boat you need depends on the water you paddle, your capabilities, and how willing you are to deal with paddling in suboptimal conditions for the previous two and being a larger guy is going to limit your choices.
If you’re anywhere near DC, I can let you try out my prospector.
Scott
I am picking up a Disco 119
tomorrow. I will let you know how it goes. If you don’t hear from me, I probably drowned and you should probably get something different.
Don’t do it
Not talking about canoe choices. but if the Dicks around your neck of the woods is like mine.? Cant do justice to the horror stories i have heard from a friend who works there. and the people who will be advising you probably know next to nothing. or tow the company line on some of the trash they sele.