Market presence? Canoes? Huh
Ok I am totally baffled about the parallel drawn between market presence and product quality/worthiness. The assumption that a limited production run of a certain model of ANYTHING must be bad is just ridiculous. Verry often the reason is poor/inadequate advertising, overprice, production issues, etc etc. Just as often, the most popular and well known products are inferior to lesser known brands and models.
Yatipope…
– Last Updated: Apr-06-15 7:31 PM EST –
You obviously don't get it; I see by your pnet mini bio that you are paddling one of those old, Dagger Sojourn "DOGS".
You are obviously a prime candidate for a Kandy Kolored Tangerine Flake Streamlined Baby.
Get with the program!
I'd probably buy that old "DOG" from you; if you offered it to me for a steal of a deal, drove it to my house, and put it up on a rack for me.
It would probably look good on the rack, beside "my own" Sojourn; the dark blue one with the gold lettering.
Have you had a lot of paddlers fighting each other to be next to test paddle yours?
I haven't. I had a lot of paddlers stand on shore & say, "that boat looks too tippy"!
So obviously it was a "DOG"; based on the opinion of those standing on shore looking at it, but not actually trying to paddle it.
:^)
BOB
Right on theBob
Yeah the Sojourn is pretty rare and therefore a crappy dog of a canoe. Funny story about how i came about buying it. A young couple with a small child bought it virtually new as a family cruiser with their big dog. I guess they didn’t notice it had only one seat and “kinda” small. Well after several bad experiences they determined it to be a tippy terrible dog of a canoe and let me have it for $200. Meanwhile those awesome Pelican plastic canoes with high strength metal keel supports sell for twice that at the box stores in mass volume. My Wenonah Vagabond is one step down on the dog scale. Sorry to admit that I love dogs so they are not going to part ways with me anytime soon.
Both right, kinda.
Daggers Sojourn was a boss canoe for the RL construction, a stellar solo tripper by my great friend Steve Scarborough. It was a vastly better boat than OT’s P15.
That said, there was never much profit in RX/RL canoes; very tight margins due to the cost of the sheeting, which was still not enough to justify rebuilding the equipment.
But I don’t understand ridiculing current state of the art design and construction with NLS options, sounds kinda Luddite, which is always counter productive. Most of us are still looking for lighter, stronger, faster.
Some of my replies…
– Last Updated: Apr-07-15 1:14 AM EST –
Some of my replies & comments are strictly my personal opinion. Some of my replies & comments are my personal warped, sense of humor, and are done with tongue firmly planted in cheek. I apologize for neither; see no reason to do so.
Fact of the matter is; some paddlers do not want, or need the stongest, fastest, lightest, most high tech canoe available. Some of the strongest, fastest, lightest, most high tech canoes are simply out of the price range of a lot of paddlers; especially beginners, and weekend warriors.
The Penobscot 15 the OP was looking at is a little too heavy to be portaging for long distances, and it won't turn on a dime & give you a nickel change. But it's not a bad looking canoe, and it was well made, and built to take a beating. It's a stable canoe, it can be turned if necessary & good technique is used. It will haul a heck of a load, and can be had for a fraction of the cost of some high tech canoes. Week long trips on rivers class 2 & lower are definitely doable. Would a little lighter weight be preferable? Sure it would. With regard to speed; how fast does one need to go, if they aren't a racer?
:^)
BOB
P.s. I don't know any Luddites. They'd banish or excommunicate me pretty quick if I were. I don't take direction, or follow instruction well. I hate Kool Aid; never drink it!
If I were a Luddite; I'd probably be the only one who had owned a Hemlock SRT, Swift Osprey, Bell Wildfire, Bell Flashfire(2), Bell Merlin, Lotus Dandy, Curtis Dragonfly (original), and more than a few Blackhawks. Yeah I know; they're all old DOGS too.
Too heavy for long portgages?
– Last Updated: Apr-07-15 6:59 AM EST –
Are you folks serious? The boat weighs 53Lbs. in royalex. Goodness. Have we gotten to the point that we describe a 53 Lb. boat as too heavy for wilderness travel?
To the OP - in my opinion the boat you are considering is an excellent choice given your stated use. Hard to beat really.
Dont be so quick to judge
It would be too heavy for me in Algonquin or Temagami on those mile to three mile portages.
I’d like to see a verified weighing,
because neither of my similar-sized Royalex canoes comes anywhere near that 53 pound weight claim.
Closer to 60 lbs. my Yellowstone Solo w
49 lbs.
The OP…
– Last Updated: Apr-07-15 11:32 AM EST –
The original poster, who was seeking information about the Penobscot 15, gave their height at 5'7" tall and weight at 135 pounds.
I think a 53 (or more?) pound canoe might be a little heavy for a 135 pound paddler. Don't know
if boat in question is wood trimmed? I can assure you that the wood trim on the Penobscot 15 I owned was heavy duty.
The OP could be a 135 pounder with the metabolism of a ferret on uppers, and competes in 7 or 8 ultra marathons a year.
BOB
Or …
Or, he could be like me; a 67 year old whose 58 lb. Mad River Freedom Solo has gotten a lot heavier over the last 5 years.
I don’t believe that
for a second. But - for paddlers with physical impairments or those who are older, (like me!) than sure - you are going to be looking for an ultra light and you are going to paddle flatwater. But if you are looking for a tripping boat that will hold up reliably in rough conditions, including white water river tripping, you are going to be very hard pressed to find something lighter.
Nothing like portage wheels
to take a load off the shoulders. Can’t take them everywhere, but with determination, you can take them almost everywhere.
Unless you have something better at hand, buy the boat. You can always sell it later if something better comes along.
Wheels?
I hate the concept of wheels. That said, a decent starter solo boat the P15 is. If OP enjoys, maybe more sophisticated shapes and lighter weights will follow. Certainly did in my case, my first solo was a MRC FG Screamer which weighed ~57lbs. Probably better to start with a compromise than wait, searching for perfection at a price.
And no, I do not think the Bob is a Luddite, but it was fun to get a rise.
I have a friend who is a purest
and prefers to carry no matter what the length or condition of the trail. He’s younger than me, and on easy trails, I’m OK wheeling my boat along beside him. We both end up at the same place - usually at about the same time. Most of my gear is in the boat. His gear is on his back. Of course, there are portages where you can’t use wheels, and then it’s just one more thing to carry.
If the concern is a heavy boat on long portages, there are ways to deal with that (maybe). If the concern is getting the boat off the rack and down to the river, that’s a different issue.
Lighter is always better if you can find it and afford it.