Solo Royalex Canoe Question

Cold cracking seems not to be
totally predictable in northern climes, but it’s enough of a risk that wood gunwales remain questionable. Maybe it’s surprising that no technical fix has been reported. It’s easy enough to window the Royalex where the screws pass through, but maybe the gunwale grip has to be so tight that the Royalex can’t slip as it contracts in the cold.



Millbrook puts ash gunwales on all composite boats, but of course with S-glass in the laminate, it does not contract with cold.

1 Like

Cold cracking
…my understanding is that it is due to different expansion/contraction rates of wood and Royalex.



If the temperature change were relatively slow would the boat still be susceptible?



I dont know the actual contraction rate of typical ash gunwales and royalex to compare.

Flashfires turn up on P.net regularly?
Not! I rarely see used Flashfires for sale anywhere - especially in the $1000 range. If they did, I’d own one.

Yellowstone Solo vs Mohawk Solo 13
For me - 5’6", 152 lbs, the royalex Yellowstone Solo (which I’ve owned and paddled for about three years) feels sluggish maneuvering compared to the royalite Solo 13. The Solo 13 is more fun for me to play. The Solo 13 feels wider and slower. Knee spread in the bilge feels wider in the Solo 13. The Solo 13 appears to be drier in large wave trains.



The Yellowstone Solo’s stern does get cought crossing eddy lines.



The Wenonah Vagabond handles better on lakes in the wind. Directional control in wind is better than the Yellowstone Solo. I haven’t paddled the Vagabond on moving water.



I’d like to have a royalex Solo 13 to play with.



I’d love to have a royalex Flashfire - which nobody appears interested in producing.



I have the most fun in my Curtis Lady Bug, but don’t want to trash it on shalow, bony streams (precurser to Flashfire, but with bubble tumblehome, rather than shouldered tumblehome). I’ll own a Black Gold Flashfire with aluminum trim, some day.



I hope that you find a boat that works well for you.

Second Wenonah Argosy
I would second Charlie’s suggestion of trying a Wenonah Argosy. The Argosy has similar dimensions to the Vagabond, but is a much more capable river boat.

If the Vagabond did not feel unduely wide to you, the Argosy should not.



I agree that sideslips and short 3-5 stroke back ferries are immensely useful maneuvers in moving water especially when paddling a boat that is necessarily going to be a compromise, considering that you want something for flatwater and river use both.



If you anticipate paddling in shallow rocky streams Royalex might be the better choice, but otherwise I would go with Glenn’s suggestion and look for something used in composite.



If you are committed to Royalex, the Yellowstone Solo would clearly be the best Bell boat for your intended use.



Remember to put some floatation in the boat if you are going to be using it in brisk current. You will need to include bags and nylon lacing, some Vynabond adhesive and vinyl D-ring patches in the budget. Some kneeling pads also, if the boat doesn’t come with them.



You might look at the video clip that was linked in a post earlier in this thread. From what I could see, that was Class I water except for Little Falls which looked like a long Class II. Does your idea of mild whitewater include something that looks like the Little Falls segment at the end?



An Argosy or Yellowstone Solo properly outfitted will get you through something like that if you have the skill to maneuver it. I wouldn’t recommend either for anything stouter unless you have a very considerable amount of skill or enjoy swimming.

Well I sold one here last year
for considerably under 1000.



I will not however reveal where it went!

Irregularly!
The word used was irregularly. Maximum numbers of Flash produced were just over 300. This was primarily due to a management decision that reps could sell Flash by putting dealers and their customers at on-water events in Wild. Didn’t work!

Agree with pblanc…

– Last Updated: Oct-26-09 2:13 PM EST –

I didn't see what I'd consider to be class 3 rapids in the video either.

Neither the Wenonah Argosy, nor the Bell Yellowstone/Wildfire(royalex)were designed for paddling class 3 rapids in my opinion.

If outfitted with air bags, and in the hands of a very skilled paddler, they could both deal with an "occasional class 3", but the results of a steady diet of class 3 rapids will be most definitely "less than ideal". Just because it can be done, does not mean that it should be done, or can be done by a novice.

The unskilled paddler will stay wet, and they will have to eddy out on a regular basis to bail water. Either boat will be nearly impossible to manage on fast moving water, when the water level in the bilge rises above their knees. If the paddler is not highly skilled; they will risk multiple swims,injuries,and sooner or later, a Yellowstone or Argosy tacoed on a boulder.

I've owned & paddled both. I sold the Argosy, and kept the Wildfire. Great boat for class 1 & 2.

Use a whitewater boat for whitewater(class 3 & up); lots of cheap ones are available on a "regular" basis.
I've bought 3 of them in the last couple of years. Mohawk Probe under $300.00. Mohawk XL 13 in great conditon for under $400.00. A wood trimmed, Mad River Outrage, in great condition for $500.00. All 3 were fully outfitted.

BOB

P.S. Yanoer: I bought my Flashfire for $850.00.
It's a 1998 model, but in near new condition.
They can be found, but you "gotta know where to look"! :^)

You’re a better “looker” than I am.
You come up with some amazing deals.

Wenonah Sandpiper?
Similar to Vagabond, but smaller (13’)… perhaps better match to your size. I think no longer in current Wenonah catalog, but used ones should be around, maybe even a few still in dealer stock???

Thanks Guys
So now I know that the Vagabond is not what I’m looking for. I know that the Yellowstone is kinda what I’m looking for, but really I should get something else, smaller, not as wide and very difficult to find that doesn’t come in Royalex…



Now I have to try the Argosy, and consider getting that or the Yellowstone, or I could wait and continue to hunt for the “perfect” boat.



How long did it take for you to find a used Flashfire?

The perfect canoe…

– Last Updated: Oct-27-09 1:14 AM EST –

The perfect canoe does not exist; that's why there are so many canoes made, bought, sold, traded, retraded, restored, and resold.

If you're going to be paddling different venues such as lakes/slow moving rivers/whitewater, there are some boats that will "suffice", but there are no canoes boats that are "ideal" for all of those venues. That is why so many people that paddle different venues have multiple canoes.

Based on what I've read about you; a used Argosy, or (royalex layup) Wildfire/Yellowstone Solo might be decent choices for you to start with on class 2 or lower rivers. Build up your skill level in one of those canoes. Test paddle others canoes; lots of them. Take a class. Then perhaps buy a cheap, used whitewater solo, and start "nibbling" at doing some more difficult rivers.

Don't fall into the trap of buying & outfitting expensive, new canoes that you "think" will suit your needs, and then find out in a short time that you have a high dollar boat you really don't care that much about. It's "really easy" to go into the hole for 12 to 14 hundred bucks, buying a new royalex, solo, whitewater canoe, and outfitting for same. It is also easy to go into the hole for 17 to 22 hundred bucks for a sleek, composite solo canoe that doesn't really fit your needs either.

I bought my first Flashfire new, quite a few years ago.
The second one I bought was used; it took me about 2 years to find a used one in the condition I wanted, and at the price I wanted to pay. I'm picky, cheap & lucky.

Forget about the perfect/do all canoe.
It's a myth in my opinion.

Good luck,
BOB



Hi Justine
I went through this scenario this summer. I am 5’2" and 114 lbs. I went into it thinking I wanted a Wenonah Argosy. I went to Cooper Lake and paddled the Argosy and quickly discarded that thought. I paddled a Vagabond and found that it is too big. I followed that with a Rapidfire and a Kestrel. I love the Kestrel, but it did not fit into my budget. I am keeping a picture of it to salivate over. In the meantime I paddled a friends Bell Wildfire and anothers Spitfire. I opted for the Royalex Wildfire. It is a good fit, handles well for me on flat and moving water, weighs in at 44 lbs., I can lift it on to the top of my SUV by myself, and I found one used for $650.00. No regrets. I have paddled it on Kinzua Lake and on the Clarion, Allegheny, and Tionesta. Spending only $650.00 for a barely used Wildfire, I had enough $$ left to pick up a slightly used Perception Dancer to take on the smaller creeks and hopefully to get on some whitewater. Hope this helps. Laura

Used Wenonah Sandpiper
I’m 5’2", but weigh more than you. I have owned my Sandpiper since 2001, when I bought it new. I have used it on Class I & II, slow rivers, twisty creeks, and lakes. It is 13’1/2 feet long and is in royalex. It has taken a beating, but is still going strong.



If I were buying a new boat, and had the bucks to do it, I might look at an Argosy, but if you can find a used Sandpiper, you should be able to find one under $500. You might even find a dealer who still has a new one in stock somewhere.



I have been very happy with the Sandpiper. I went through the Arkansas Canoe Club Whitewater School in it, and outfitted it with float bags. It isn’t the boat for big whitewater, but if you’re paddling water that has some fun stuff here and there, it will definitely work.



I’ve paddled it on the Guadalupe, San Marcos, South Llano Rivers in Texas, Ouachita, Buffalo, Mulberry, Spring Rivers in Arkansas, Current River, North Fork of the White, Jacks Fork, Eleven Point Rivers in Missouri, among others.



It also paddles well on lakes and rivers without much current. It’s easy to cartop (I have a mini-van) by myself at about 39 lbs. Good luck with your decision.



Jill

And you can get a vertical stroke
with a Yellowstone Solo? You must have long arms for your height.

Used to know a little guy, an ACA
instructor and excellent in whitewater, who soloed an Old Town Tripper. He had no trouble with the vertical stroke. He did lean the boat to the paddling side a bit…

Argosy?
I like my Argosy for twisty river work, not really WW though. Sucks on flat water, so I got a Wilderness too. I’m up to 4 canoes now, and thinking about a composite tandem. They all have their uses, and I’m just anal enough to be a canoe seller’s wet dream of a customer.

Hey, I know someone who has one
There’s one here in our area, that has a good home after it was “set free” by you. “Perrywinkle” was much in demand at our Spring Canoeapalooza. Everyone loved paddling it.



But, you had two Flashfires? Wow! You musta been hoarding them. :wink:

Good advice; listen to Bob (nm)

no disputing that
a whole bunch of friends of mine paddle OT trippers solo, (perhaps heeled) on our spring river outings.



Some even come with really long arms called poles.



Never said soloing a Tripper was not possible. Heck its the only way to run the something like the Bonaventure solo for five days and have creature comforts…like supports to make a loaf of bread five feet long over a fire. Its parallel solo…half a dozen paddlers, half a dozen trippers.



But somehow I think that is not what the OP wants.