Reader’s Digest version:
“Muscling up with the paddle is bad!”
I do it too - though with a 3.5" wide paddle blade I can only get so bad, right? I’ve used GPs from 80" x 2.5" to 88" x 3.5", small euros like a 210 Waterstick Zen (pretty small blades), bigger euros, and an Epic Mid Wing. All work fine (both sides). The super small GP requires a little cleaner technique and is pretty shaky offside. Doing a sweep roll with a wing paddle you really can do a pull up style roll! Easiest to roll with of all of them if you don’t fight it.
My recommendation - -try as many boats and paddles as you can (and half paddles, whatever). If you can only roll with your own boat and paddle - you don’t have a roll. Not saying you should be able to roll anything anywhere - but getting part way there is a good idea. Trying other gear teaches me more than just practicing in mine can.
It’s ALL in the set-up
I'm one of those people who hit my roll on the first try. It was amazing to me how easily it happened. I had a GREAT instructor who described the set-up phase and execution phase and then told me to flip over and he would smack my boat when I was properly set up (at which point I would do the execution). In my several years of practice, I've missed very few (a few offside at first). Then came the day that it all counted...I was on a class 2-3 whitewater section of the Potomac, was doing some surfing and BAM! I was under water and had no idea how. Since I was not in the safety of a clear swimming pool or the calm water of a reservoir, I RUSHED the roll hard and missed. I came up about 1/2 way and actually let go of my paddle to grab the water as I was going back over. I was totally unnerved for a second or two. I did manage to keep one hand on the paddle and then said to myself "alright Krousmon, you KNOW how to do this... set up... make sure it's right... flex wrist to get the right angle on blade... reach up as far as you can... EXECUTE!" I was up.
The lesson for me was, once again, take the time to set-up properly, the rest will follow. The key is doing the roll CAREFULLY. If you take your time and you pay attention to the details, the roll will happen.
Setup is important early on.
But a roll is not bombproof until you can do it instinctiviely without setup. In his video Eric Jackson talks about this. Ultimately you should be able to roll with the paddle veritical in the water. I can’t do that yet but I can simply tip over, move the paddle toward the surface, and hip snap up without the business of putting the paddle parallel to the boat, cock the wrist, sweep, etc. If I am in white water I can feel the current and use that to roll. Sing has talked about sensing the wave and rolling. If you do a sweep roll, consider moving to the slash roll, which does not require a strict setup and provides a basis for moving to an intuitive roll. People lose rolls because their roll is based on precise execution in a rote way of a physical routine. Instead it needs to be based on sensing what the water is doing and where your body is, and how to go from there.
exactly!
While the slash roll is my standard "setup" roll, I actually do not have a true setup position anymore. When I flip in whitewater, I simply roll up from whatever position I flipped in. My body feels the current and I only need the slightest pressure from the blades to roll up. EJ's video was really great in that learning the vertical paddle roll led to learning a hand roll which lead to learning a bombproof river hand roll. Awesome. Once you understand (really understand) how and why you roll up, it's an instinctual smooth motion within the water rather than a physical exertion against the water. Setup is really important at first but like Dr. Disco said, if you really want to bombproof a roll, you have to move beyond the setup.
Ditto, Ditto.
Keep playing, in relative safe environment with moving water – surf and white water – to learn to sense the water. First, stay calm, wait, set up and roll. Once, you really confident with that, try to feel and get your paddle blade right where there water is moving to provide lift. You’ll find yourself coming right up, almost as fast as you capsize. The ability to do this the basis for being able to learn/do some of the more advanced playboating moves like airscews, helixes, etc…
sing
sing
Oh yeah… I know all that stuff…
Why just yesterday, I boofed off a rock over a 16’ waterfall, did a double helix on the way down, did a stern squirt when I hit the water and finished upside down at the end of the chute. I didn’t even move my paddle to roll up… I just ‘blinked’ (like Jeannie) and I was up. Yeah, I was just trying to help Kudzu out with his flat-water roll.
Actually, the scenario
I was describing took place a couple of years ago. I’ve got a pretty good roll now in all my boats with various blades.
I’ve not however, learned rescue techniques with the Greenland paddle. My two homebuilts didn’t last long enough for that - too much rock bashing in a river. I’m eagerly awaiting one of Don Beale’s paddles which is still probably three weeks out.
I’d better pick it up quickly as the October waters are getting pretty cold here in Wyoming!
Take care.
Holmes
Doesn’t matter.
Whitewater, surf, or flatwater. The principles are the same. Rolling without a setup from whatever position you find yourself is best. If you learn that, you are not going to lose your roll. Rolling with a setup that requires the least precision is second best. The Eric Jackson roll or the slash roll qualify. Relying on an exact setup is just asking for failure. In your personal example it was not really the setup that saved the day but rather your ability to pull yourself together. When it comes right down to it, it is the knee action (“hip snap”) that rolls the boat, not the paddle. The paddle helps out but you are in trouble if it is the dominant factor.
Diagnose, then fix
There's nothing like doing lots of rolls to see where you tend to start getting sloppy when tired or rushed. This year I found out that my hip snap made up for occasionally poor paddle-handling (not having the blades flat on the water, starting the sweep a bit late). So I know at least one thing that needs tuning up to be a consistently *strong* roll rather than just a non-failed one.
Maybe it would be helpful for you to have someone knowledgeable watch you roll (or try to). Not once, but many times. See if there's some consistency in what goes wrong and tell you what it is. Right now it sounds like you have no idea why the roll fails. You can't fix something that hasn't been diagnosed.
P.S.
Don't be in a rush. In winter, you can use a swimming pool to practice; it would be easier for someone to see what goes on, too.
Tried something new today…
Today I went out for the first time in three months in my Necky Elaho, I’ve been playing with my Greenland SOF all summer. I’ve developed a fairly consistent hand roll on both sides this summer and wanted to see if I could transfer it to the Elaho. With a little practice I found the feel of rolling the Elaho again. Paddle rolls were fine (all using a GP) and I got the norsaq (rolling stick) to work but not as constantly as I hoped. When I moved on to the hand rolls nothing seemed to work. I worked at it for awhile focusing on the hip rotation and getting my head back, however nothing brought the boat up.
Frustrated, I gave it a rest and moved on to some work on the forward finishing rolls. When I was nearly done, I decided to try one more thing on the hand rolls. I took my feet off the foot pegs and slid as far forward on the seat as I could. I was on the lip of the bucket seat with my thighs tightly jammed under the thigh braces and my feet free. This is the position used for back finishing rolls (at least the hard ones) in a SOF. I tried the hand rolls again and they were now easy, both onside and offside worked fine. Balance braces were also much easier.
So my message is that moving forward a few inches in a sea kayak can make a big difference on layback rolls. Laying on the back deck is much easier, but the advantage goes beyond that, I haven’t decided what the physics might be, but it may have something to do with placing your body closer to the center of the boat. You don’t need to push with your feet to roll, you need a firm connection with your thighs/knees to rotate the boat. Paddle rolls have so much power you shouldn’t need to reposition once you master the technique but moving forward may help anyone struggling with layback rolls.
Good luck.
Ralph
Yep
I'm going to look at my calendar today and see what looks good for a visit to Liv2... provided Hurricane Rita stays away. I'll check the local paddle shop for a rolling video also.