your experience and mine differs
I picked up the phone, called the number, got the main man, and talked to him about the details of my special order. You’re right though about having to go through a retailer. That’s only fair and standard practice.
likewise
it’s not widely advertized, but you can get snapdragon skirts WITHOUT the back-up safety strap too. That’s how I special ordered mine. Don’t like 'em. The way I look at it, it’s just one more thing to get caught on something on the way up the stern deck. We all have our preferences. It’s nice Snapdragon is willing to accomodate.
Now you tell me
bout the stern deck thing!
Actually, I tuck my spray deck up under my PFD before attempting a cowboy self rescue, or I end up sitting on it. Might possiby get caught when mounting from the side on a T rescue, too.
Good point, thanks.
Paul
huh?
one MORE thing to get tangled up…you’re adding this as a feature?
keep the grab loop free seems simple enough. if you do bone head it and slip it underneath, it would seem simple enough to pinch it off if you have to do so. worked on every boat i’ve ever tried it on.
Different schools…
– Last Updated: May-09-07 8:19 PM EST –
Whitewater folks usually hate anything that could snag or tangle. Touring folks usually like loops and clips and pockets for stuff. Folks who often paddle in cold water and/or wear gloves like having bigger things to grab. And so it goes...
Yup, verying points of view.
– Last Updated: May-09-07 8:19 PM EST –
I won't really know if I like the strap until I try it. Easier to order with it and cut it off later than order without it and try to add later.
I am a little paranoid about getting the spray deck off, which is what drove the initial interest.
As an after thought, some items might be better attached on the spray deck than the boat deck. Would not interfere with the paddle there. Also, when tucking, the item would maybe just push into my lap. I know, need to be minimalist about deck stuff. But maybe mini GPS, map holder, camera in water tight case. Dunno. We'll see.
edit: Wait, that last paragraph suggests more snag problems during a rescue. Map holder and little Foretrex GPS should be ok. Maybe not a camera case.
Paul S.
I must hang with the wrong crowd…
I’ve never seen anybody use these…
I do have friends who devise internal seat belts, with knee suicide blocks and extra rubber tire rands to keep the skirt on no matter what…
synonyms for “stuff
on deck”
flotsam
jetsam
debris
You answered your own question
– Last Updated: May-09-07 11:34 PM EST –
Skirts like the Glacier Trek and Sea Trek are not "tight fitting". If they are, you have the wrong size deck.
I can get mine (Glacier - before they added the strap) off one handed (and on if I had to), with or without the grab loop. The strap is nice - for other things mentioned - but not needed on these as they need not be as agressive fitting as some WW skirts with reinforced rands.
Good points about gloves changing things.
Better points about the snag potential.
Just don't exit/reenter except launching/landing and it's all good! ;)
I wish I’d known that
I have two older SD skirts, both without the strap. When I bought a new one, it came with the strap, which I did not order.
I don’t like it. It hasn’t actually caused any problem yet; I just don’t need it and straps that don’t fill a real need make me leery.
Best thing about that strap is it is reflective. Could be a safety aid for that reason.
I was thinking it might be useful for attaching a map case to. I guess I’m trying to create a “real need” for the strap. But right now it’s an answer that didn’t have a question.
Yup… I Am One Of 'Em…
– Last Updated: May-10-07 7:23 AM EST –
Suicide knee blocks locked in with pvc tubing across the cockpit for reinforcement, seat belt installed to prevent accidental exits, and hard as hell to get on/off Mountainsurf skirt.
Then I discovered waveskis... Thanks goodness... No stinkin' skirt needed or implosions to worry about... :)
sing
PS. I have had two spray skirts with the straps across. Just happened to come with the boats I bought. My opinion... Unnecessary, but it sells to those with doubts in their minds.
Skirt w/pocket
Wildwasser has this and I think I just saw someone else off it too. I wouldn’t advise the strap on Snapdragon’s skirt for ongoing storage of things, it’s just not suited. But Wildwasser etc does have a skirt with a small pocket on the deck, zippered I thing, that wouldn’t leave any edges available to grab on things.
As to cowboy re-entries, I have yet to master that one. Just about anything else is faster and better for me. But I would agree that in general you’d want to tuck the skirt under the PFD fist. Even without the strap the grab loop itself could get caught on the end of the elfen boats I paddle, and once you are sitting on the skirt at all things are likely to move along a bit less smoothly. I am not sure that the strap adds a lot of issue all by itself.
Releasing th skirt
Your question is most certainly valid. The greatest danger is people putting the grab loop under the skirt. I think the secondary release strap is more for that rather then because the regular loop doesn’t work or is hard to release.
A paddler died in MA last year who couldn’t release his skirt. The news never said if the grap loop was under the skirt.
When I started paddling I got into the habit of tying a golf ball to my grap loop. I just drill a hole in it. If I’m in a stuper and pull my spray skirt over the loop you will feel the ball in a second. And if I’m upside down, the ball sinks and I can easily grap it with gloves or mitts.
Great idea
– Last Updated: May-10-07 9:32 AM EST –
I always add plastic tubing held on by wrapped duct tape to the Snapdragon skirts because I don't relish fishing around for that lightweight loop in a pinch. I tried wiffle balls, but found that they tend to float upwards and so end up being not any better to feel for than the plastic tubing. I don't/can't open my eyes under water, so in a fast feel with winter gloves the diff between the end of a GP and the side of a wiffle ball aren't so different.
The golf ball seems to be a really good idea, maybe not for WW or rocks and ledges stuff but prime for regular open water paddling..
Couple of thoughts
1) People should be taught to remove their skirt without using the front loop first! That way they don’t die on their first accidental capsize. A loop in front or over the deck should be considered insurance, not the only way to get out. (Don’t mean to be overly harsh)
2) I have been using the Wildwasser skirt with the mesh pouch on the deck for 3 years now. It’s nice for a couple of trinkets, but not necessary The most common use I have for it is to quickly store garbage that I pick up on the water.
3) IR bungee skirts are really nice for sea kayaking. Thier rubber sheath system with or without reinforcing bar provides substantial resistance to implosion, but does not make it any harder to put on/take off.
More on point of view
Even though I know about pinching the side of the deck to release the skirt and tried it a couple times, I hadn’t really trusted it as a backup. Last night at the pool I tried it a bunch of times at the side and also top near the grab loop. Worked great! No worries at all now about getting the skirt off. Though this is an L deck on a boat with an M cockpit. My new skirt will have an M deck. When I had the L decked skirt on an L cockpit, I really had to pull forward on the grab loop, then up. So still don’t know what the M deck will feel like. Also though, when I had the L cockpit, it was my first few months paddling, and had much less forward flexibility. I suspect now I curl forward more naturally so that my shoulders are closer to the grab loop.
Ability to remove the skirt was not a huge worry before, but a little paranoia in conditions. Eliminating points of paranoia to build confidence is good. If I can grab the new deck every which way to remove it, with and without gloves, then I may cut off the strap. Only loss will have been $10 for the strap.
This has been a good discussion if only to get me to focus a bit on the ability to remove my skirt without the grab loop, to build confidence. It’s been a minor baseline worry for awhile. With so many things to practice though, I’d left it as a minor worry.
Thanks everyone for the discussion.
Paul S.
Don’t disagree
Pulling a skirt should be the same as self-rescue - one way isn’t enough, three alternatives is a nice number. I just find that water in the 40’s and the gloves thick enough to take care of my hands in that stuff really reduce my feel and dexterity. This a most of the year concern in the WW skirt - some of the stuff that we’ll be in when we take some baby steps is bottom release, and even in June it’ll be coming out of there at ice cream headache temps.
but…
that little wiffle golf ball on the grab loop offers further risk of entanglement on a re-entry…your sliding your self into your cockpit, the ball gets caught up in the back band, etc. just another thing to get stuck, caught or ensnared. without the golf ball on the grab loop, only the loop may get caught up on somehting…one less “thing”
not saying the idea if good or bad…just making an observation from personal experience.
k.i.s.s. -ing is an idea with merit.
Reading this after posting below.
From my experience last night, I agree.
Paul S.
"fishing around for that … loop"
Place hand on coaming and follow it around. Hard to miss it. If it’s tucked inside, just grab some skirt at the sides.
If the skirt’s not too tight, and people have issues doing either, then the issue isn’t with the skirt
Maybe these loop hunting issues are a glove thing? If I ever move North I’ll have a lot of adapting to do.