I was hoping carldelo would be around. He cradles basic common sense into scientifically valid perspectives much better than I can. A couple other posters, like kocho, made nice, clear points too.
Here's something that occurred to me that I think is a likely explanation for what's shown in the video. Apparently the water flow is provided by the outflow of a hose, just a little ways upstream of the field of view. Carledo's comments about turbulence are likely at work too, but ANYTIME water from a restricted source empties into a wider pool, a "pile-up" of water is created just a little ways downstream. Whitewater playboaters goof around on these things all the time, just below any kind of localized, faster stream within the river. Put a boat on the upstream side of that pile-up, and it moves upstream. Whitewater boaters call it "surfing" because that's what it is. The boat is moving forward relative to the water that supports it, as it slides downhill. Whether on the forward face of a wave rolling through still water (traditional beach surfing) or perpetually sliding downhill against the flow on the "conveyor belt" of moving water below a chute, the relationships of the boat to water and slope of its surface are the same. I think that there's a tiny pile-up of water where the stream of water from the hose slows down amid the turbulence generated as it tries to blast through the relatively still water farther downstream, and even if that pile-up is only 1/64 of an inch or so (or any other amount which would be invisible to the naked eye in in this particular model), it would be enough to create a zone where gravity drives the boat downhill against the flow.
However, as any whitewater boater knows (and as my earlier statement about needing the local fire department to maintain a faster-moving stream properly located just in front of the boat at all times implies), this won't take you upriver any farther than the local zone where this particular hydraulic feature is happening (in the event of surfing, once the end of the downhill run is reached, that's the end of forward progress). It is NOT a perpetual-motion machine. It is in fact explained by some localized turbulence or pile-up, thereby allowing either gravity or the turbulence itself to function as the driving force.
I have tried to use the "kite and string" explanation on this board several times in the past to explain why lift requires that an external force be applied to the object supplying lift, and the majority of the people I've discussed this with do not understand. Of course, I wouldn't be attempting to explain it if they did so that doesn't mean most people can't get it. I think most people can. It is basically the same as the point I originally made regarding the mechanism for why a sailboat can move "nearly directly" upwind but a hot-air balloon cannot. The kite-and-string concept mentioned by carldelo is the key point - the easiest-to-understand method - illustrating the basic flaw in the O.P.'s reasoning.
GBG - you nailed it. There is debris clearly being propelled “upstream” (right to left) in the video directly after the first trip with the “boat”.
I have seen exactly what GBG is describing on a flat river with varying channel width. No perceptible wave, but the boat - any boat - drifts upriver. Simple hydraulic forces at work. No magic. No “secret physics”.
You could prove this with theory if you really understood it, but go ahead - build a full-scale model and try it on a real river. We’re dying to see your results.
Good idea, but as I said before, all the O.P. needs to do is take his existing model and do the test in a section of a tiny creek having normal flow (an area without a concentrated stream of stronger current within some larger region of slower flow).
I had to stay away from this discussion for most of the day because I hurt myself after tripping and falling all the way up the stairs from my basement to the main floor (okay, really I was at Canoecopia all day).
Okay, now that at least one person knows what I'm talking about (lots of others do too, I know), here are some photos and videos to show a full-scale example of what I was saying about a boat "coasting downhill" against a current. Yeah, there are MUCH better surfing illustrations out there, but this is all I have of my own.
(for those new to Flickr, click "Actions" at the upper left of the photo for the quickest access to all available larger sizes of each shot)
Note that that once the canoe goes upstream far enough to start the downhill coast, little to no propulsive power is needed to keep it moving toward the low spot. Once really surfing, more effort is necessary for steering than forward propulsion. ESPECIALLY note that not only can I not coast upstream beyond the point where the elevation of the water's surface starts rising again, I can't even get past that point with paddle power. The upstream driving force supplied by the wave only works "right there", not anywhere else, and when trying to go farther upstream than that point, "going uphill and upstream" requires more power than I can supply, and that's a perfect example of what I said earlier about not being able to go upstream "for free" or without the input of energy derived from some source other than that of the moving water.
Also take a look at the photo called "Great fun, like a kite on a string". The OP has been talking about lift but not knowing how it works. That photo illustrates lift which causes the boat to move laterally relative to the force of the current. I seem to remember that the description below the photo tells the whole story, but in brief, the "exterior force" that I said earlier is necessary to create lift is supplied by gravity as the boat coasts downhill toward the lowest point on the water's surface, completely counteracting the "push" of current against the hull so that the boat stays put rather than "blowing away" downstream.
What’s your point? Are you just trying to divert attention from your flawed theory? Land sailing is little different from sailing on water and the same priciples apply, i.e., you can’t sail directly into the wind.
Against the wind and current There is a way to sail against the wind: Wind turbine mounted on a boat and coupled to a propeller. But here again you use one support against another. I know some people can’t believe that’s possible, but it is, if there is enough wind (obviously more energy loss than sailing with the wind).
Another interessant observation is birds flying against the wind, without much wings’ flapping, like some raptors or seabirds. I suppose they use the energy from slightly ascending turbulences to gain some meters against gravity then shun descending flows, or use lateral wind direction changes to briefly “surf” - horizontally. You can observe that on some very windy days, big birds very slowly gaining against the wind! Superb!
I also observed fish staying in the same place with very few moves, in rivers. But you can do the same on the surface with your boat, when carefully choosing your position in some eddys you can find nearly motionless water, then correct any movement with very light paddle strokes.
I sailed 40 years and know about land sailing. Iceboats as well…but there’s still that common denominator.
Just spent 4 hours paddling my local run. In the cl. 3 holes I was letting my boats air…ooops hydrofoil hull design, created by strategically placed fiberglass ( I put them over the holes caused by slamming some rocks last year), pull my boat forward into the hole, so I could do my tricks and have my fun. What was an oilcanned section last week was renamed a foil this week, and that helped as well.
The key point is that sailing of any kind relies on TWO forces acting on the sailing vessel that are entirely independent of each other. You must have the force of wind on the sail, AND the force of water against the boat. If you can't supply BOTH of those independent forces, you can't sail any direction except straight downwind. Sailing crosswise to the wind or diagonally upwind can only be done by making use of BOTH forces. Stop ignoring this basic fact - it's been pointed out to you in several ways.
First the wind. The resulting component of wind against the sail (the effective direction of the force) is perpendicular to the sail, and when sailing close to the wind, the resulting component of force against the sail becomes very small, and is applied to the boat in a direction that has very little forward component. As others have said, you can't go directly upwind, and the reason is that there's no way to create an effective force against the sail OR a force having forward component if attempting to go in that direction.
Now the water. The boat "grips" the water when pushed diagonally forward by the sail, and the boat's shape causes the force associated with that resistance into forward travel because that's the only direction the boat will efficiently move. Any force applied by the wind which has a forward component, however slight, will make the sailboat go forward. For land sailing, it's the fact that tires only roll in one direction and for ice boating it's the fact that the skates only slide in one direction which allows crosswind and diagonally-upwind sailing to be possible.
At best, your model for upstream coasting could be done by diagonally "tacking" upstream but in this case you can't even do that because there is no independent, counteracting force acting on your boat (that resistance to lateral movement of a sailboat hull, a land-sailer's wheels, an ice boat's skates, or a flying kite's string). Therefore, you do not understand that a sailboat can't go directly into the wind, and you must believe that a kite can be flown without a string. To believe a boat can coast upstream requires you to believe these two things, and if you don't it only shows how extremely confused you are. Think carefully about all that's been said. Thus far, you have not. These things DO relate to the reasons your model does not work for the reasons you say it does.
Yes, you can sail upwind, but … you can sail directly upwind, but as you said, you require a propulsion system under the boat to redirect the wind power forward using the water’s dynamic resistance as a counter force. Basically, you harness the wind power by creating a dynamic resistance that does not depend on the hull direction against the wind and that is larger than the hull drag and any other wave-making resistance from moving against the water.
You still can’t sail straight against the wind without that underwater rotating/propulsive gizmo - a sail and a stationary foil can’t work for this.
But that’s different than the idea that you can self-propell against current using only the power of the current…
... the OP's device wouldn't work to go upstream against the extremely laminar and uniform flow of currents in the open ocean either (of course, ocean currents are not strictly uniform when viewed on the scale of a map, but for practical purposes they are pretty uniform in the open ocean when considered on the scale of something as small as a boat or ship).
On a related note, one of my favorite memories from physics classes was a demonstration proving that the operator of a boat on the open ocean (or on a fogbound river) in the absence of fixed landmarks can do nothing to determine which way the current flows. It's a very simple proof, but incredibly contrary to the average person's conceptual view (and thus it's often impossible to explain without a long process of making numerous different vector diagrams). Fun stuff.
Recirculation This video shows the boat moving due to recirculation in the trough. The jet from the hose flows to the right, entraining water from the upper portion of the trough and drawing it to the left. This is just a large recirculation zone, with current to the right along the bottom and to the left along the surface, with some eddies thrown into the mix. This is what your models are riding. You may not realize it, but your video shows that nothing unusual is happening. I’m surprised that you can’t see what’s going on, as the equipment is right in front of you.
Seed money, ha! The Phi guy is either a scammer pretending he does not get the joke or just does not get it in earnest. Just check his web site off his u-tubes or some other posts he's made elsewhere and you'll see where he's headed... If he's doing this in earnest, I admire him for the enthusiasm, but at the same time wonder why his "physics" knowledge does not allow him see the very basic stuff behind some of his prototypes.. And to understand why people would be quite reluctant to spend thousands on the backyard windmill generator he's trying to sell...
On the other hand:
Here's an interesting video, that shows that on can sail faster than wind directly downwind (and by the same token one could sail directly upwind).
However, as mentioned previously, this is a completely different principle that has a theoretical foundation and works. Unlike the "foil magic" posted here that does not and could not work as presented.
And a few more videos:
First, moving directly upwind with no additional propulsion: http://youtu.be/oKqC5JsurOk
The reverse-flow portion of an eddy can be anywhere, not just along the sides of the channel. In this case it's easy to see WHY there's a reverse flow at the surface (anyone who's spent a lot of time looking at the current in tiny streams has seen this a million times). Since the boat is floating at the surface, and since that's where the major backflow of the eddy is located, the boat moves from right to left (to clarify: the boat is carried by the backflow portion of the recirculation, so as far as the boat is concerned, it is "going with the flow" rather than against it).
Try three things to change the nature of that turbulence, or even greatly reduce it:
1. Re-mount that hose so it sprays in at the top of the trough rather than at the bottom. That will put most of the reverse-flow portion of the eddy at the bottom of the channel instead of at the water's surface where the boat is riding.
2. Re-mount that hose so that it sprays directly at the left end of the tank instead of toward the right and into the pool of relatively still water of the test area. That should greatly reduce the intensity of the turbulence within in the area where the boat is placed. If the hose is too stiff to bend into that position, run it into the tank from the downstream end, all the way to the upstream end, and lay it along the bottom where it will be out of the way.
3. Build a totally new device for adding water to the left end of the trough, one that does not introduce the water in the form of a concentrated stream, but instead allows it to enter at lower velocity within a broader area. I suggest anchoring a large metal can in the water at the left end of the trough. Perforate the entire surface of the can with hundreds of small holes. Position the water-supply hose so that it dumps into that can, rather than directly into the trough. This will eliminate that fast, concentrated stream of water that is making a mess of things right now, and will do so without changing the flow volume that moves along the length of the trough.
Relative to the system:
DW 1x = no wind
DW 2x = Up wind 1x
DW 3x = Up wind 2x
The machine start from 0 to DW 1x, At this point no wind power affect the system. What energy it takes to speed up ? ? ? ?
I am applying a "flaw" theory?
??????