vestibule
I didn’t get the vestibule because the tent is very spacious for one person plus gear. Actually, that’s why I bought the Awahanee rather than the I-tent, which would require the vestibule. I’ve used it for two on short trips no problem, but for extended trips i’d rather have my own space. i agree with you about the cost, but having owned and used lots of tents (nf, sierra designs,rei, msr mostly) in demanding conditions over the years, getting rid of the fly and ease of set up (you can set up the Bibler from inside the tent if conditions are terrible)make the price more than worth it.
where?
what sort of places on the planet have you been to where your tents haven’t held up well or have? what were the most extreme conditions you have been in?
tent stress
Mostly winter and summer mountaineering/climbing in the Sierras and in Montana. Had a Sierra Designs tent destroyed on a winter ascent of Shasta once; only a Bibler survived intact. Ending up spending 2 nights in a snow cave, but this was 30 years ago. This past summer in Newfoundland we ended up moving both heavily guyed Northface tents to more sheltered locations when the wind gusts reached 60mph and it looked like several days of this sort of stuff. The Bibler stayed put (and was reasonably quiet) with no problem. It isn’t that the Bibler is so much better, but it is a lot more convenient. Still, if you don’t expect to encounter expedition conditions and money is an issue, it is definately overkill.
Weight/material and number of poles,
weight/type of fabric,weight and size of stiching, height of tent, number of stake tie downs…
Bob— We wore out a Timberline 4 man
Timberline, and it was OK for the money, but the poles were distorted by a wind at the beach, and the coating flaked off. A decent cheap tent, but nowhere near as good as our Kelty Vortex 4, which didn’t cost much more, provides more inside space, a bunch of vestibule space, two doors, better ventilation, aero shape, tie points for windy conditions, etc.
Eureka is the General Motors of the tent industry. Even when they appear to make a serious effort, they’re just faking it.
Sierra Designs Omega CD 3-4 season
tent is promising. I’m just starting with one. It has a small footprint, important when improvising a space on a non-prepared campsite. Cover panels on the door and in the roof zip open for summer ventilation; I find it just a speck warm compared to our Kelty Vortex 4. In cold conditions, with the fly and inner panels zipped shut, it will hold a lot of warmed air from its two occupants. Fairly easy to erect, lots of convenience features, and if you set up in extreme conditions, the tent can be braced internally with nylon cords (provided) which stiffen the structure even more. Weighs about 7 pounds packed into all the little bags, which is acceptable for backpacking and great for canoeing.
Eureka makes store brands,
or so it seems. We needed a new car camping tent and we looked at a bunch of stuff. I worked for a college outdoor center 30 yrs ago and we used Eureka Timberlines with great success. The hubby and I have had Eureka tents for over 17 yrs and have been very happy with them. When we looked for our latest tent, we noticed that the Eurekas seemed different. Then I went to Dick’s Sporting goods and found the Eureka tent that we had been looking at being sold as a store brand. I bought it for $65 and it has withstood 80mph winds and torrential rain. We were warm and dry in it. I can stand up in it and there’s lots of room for gear, so it will be our base camp tent for a while. I think Eureka’s quality is different than it was, but if you can buy one as a store brand I think it’s a good value.
g2d
The Eureka Timberline you wore out…
Was it the regular or outfitter model?
How many years/how much usage did it take you to wear it out?
How much did it cost when you bought it?
Was it worth “that” price?
Eureka Timberline’s are certainly not something I’d take on what might be considered an “expedition”. On the other hand, they don’t cost anywhere near 650 dollars, as did one tent which has been mentioned. Mine have served me well on many occasions, in some nasty conditions, and I didn’t agree with the blanket indictment of the company.
I’ve seen North Face VE 25s, used by a NOLS group I was backpacking with in the Big Horn Mountains in Wyoming collapse under the weight of snow, and leak like a spaghetti strainer. That doesn’t mean all North Face tents are junk, nor are all VE 25s.
BOB
Eureka “store brands”
Yes, Eureka does make “store brand” tents. Among others the Galyon’s chain sells ‘em. Typically they are regular Eureka (3-season) tents sold below regular retail, yet with added niceties like DAC aluminum poles versus fiberglass poles. We’ve purchased two during the past few years, a 4-man (for car camping) and a 3-man (for canoe/camping). Both have held up well. The 4-man required re-sealing after a couple of seasons, but the 3-man did not. Resealed ‘em both anyway. Good bang for the buck. These are of course not expedition tents.
When we bought the Timberline,
I’m not sure they offered an “outfitters” model. It was a good tent for several years for us and the two kids. I think most people would still appreciate the straightforward setup. I think that at the time, it was as good or better a tent for a young family as anything available for twice the price. That’s no longer true, although if I met a young family who wanted a four man Timberline and did not want to pay a little extra to get a Vortex 4, I would say, sure, go ahead. The Timberline might even shed snow better than the Vortex, though neither is a snow tent. But, having owned both, I would never want to go back to the Timberline.
expedition=4 season use
at least thats what it means to us (Appalachian Trail section hikers)…and 4 season means it can handle a snow load…
but back to tents…have you considered hammocking? We’ve been been section hiking on the AT for 34+ years and discovered hammocking 2+ years ago, it is the best thing for backpacking since sliced bread…and the hammock also rules for sea/kayak camping because not all places you might want to camp will have flat tent spots.
Try Hennessey Hammocks, they carry at least 8 different models, all are bug proof and extremely comfortable. I’ve converted many hikers to using them-even in cold weather. For really cold hammocking look at Speer hammocks and his PeaPod, his hammock is comfortable though not as comfortable as the Hennessey but by its design it can handle colder temps (and by that I mean below freezing).
For those of us who prefer Hennesseys for most of the year there is a company called Jacks-r-Better that makes a down underquilt that suspends below the Hennessey line of hammocks (most of them but especially the Backpacker A-sym and the Light Racer). I’ve used the underquilt to below freezing with no problems. The underquilt they make is called The Nest and it is multifunction in that it can be a normal down comforter or even a down vest to wear around camp. Quality of construction is excellent. I’ve also took it on the Cheseapeake trip 2 weeks ago when nightime temps ranged from 49F to 82F so it is variable in how much insulation you can actually have under you and where.
some url’s:
www.jacksrbetter.com
http://www.hennessyhammock.com/
http://www.speerhammocks.com/
If you are new to hammocking and want to try it while paddle camping come to
www.whiteblaze.net
and while there look for the hammock camping forum, much much info there on pushing the cold temp limit while hammocking
Two versions of the Timberline
There are two versions offered in the Eureka Timerline 2 and 4. One is called the Eureka Timberline 2(4) and the second is called the Eureka Timberline 2(4) XT. XT meaning extra tough. It has stronger poles and tougher (heavier) tent body materials. The XT will usually outlast the standard version.
Hope this helps,
-MEAT
Why
Expedition is just a word used to get people to spend more money on tents. Use bungee cords, where the atakes go, to secure your tent and that will make it more resistant to wind damage and it will stay taught. Secure the cords to a stake or rock and your tent will have more give but will snap back. My two-person Eureka with a domed rain-fly had no problems with gusting winds that were strong enough to lift my kayak and blow it into Flaming Gorge Reservior.
Why would anyone spend $649 so they can hideout from 60+ mph winds and pouring cold rain in a tent? Buy a cheaper tent and head south where it’s warm.
Ever try to hang a hammock in the desert? Their use is very limited. Can’t use them above tree line in the mountains either, where the high lakes and best fishing are. Dressing in one isn’t fun either. Then there’s the problem of having to find two trees close enough and strong enough to hang a hammock. That’s not that easy in a western forest. I’ve been able to find tent sites on hillsides. Big game animals as well as cattle can form flat spots big enough for a small two person tent on the high side of a tree. Those are my favorite kind of campsites. They’re warmer than in a canyon or on a ridge and the views are always good.
Why
"Why would anyone spend $649 so they can hideout from 60+ mph winds and pouring cold rain in a tent? Buy a cheaper tent and head south where it’s warm."
Because some of us live in places like that. That’s why.
Moreover, there’re those of us who actually like to live there. That’s why.
Advantages:
- There’ll be no many people. No need to reserve permit 6 months ahead (e.g. most of CA backcountry camping requires that)
- I used to camp late Sept to Oct or even early Nov in upstate New York and Vermont. The color is fantastic that time of year. But the weather can change very quickly…
- X-country ski/snow camping anyone?
No, I don’t camp in cold rain in 60 mph wind if I can help it. But there’s times and places where that’s what it takes to be there. And believe me, the scenary (or paddling/hiking/biking) is unique, it’s worth it.
For someone living in Boston, $600 could buy maybe 2 tickets to the south. The tent, on the other hand, can be used many, many more times. You see, it actually works out cheaper.
So it’s a stronger version of a
slab-sided, old-timey design. Stronger means heavier, of course, and our original Timberline was already a bunch heavier than our Kelty Vortex 4.
expensive tent
– Last Updated: Aug-26-04 9:39 PM EST –
"Why would anyone spend $649 so they can hideout from 60+ mph winds and pouring cold rain in a tent?
For one or two nights, a less expensive tent is fine if it stays up. For winter mountaineering or long expeditions in remote places, a bombproof easy to set up in bad conditions tent is not optional. Put a three season tent or cheap four season tent in high winds for several days in a row and see what happens. I can't tell you how many trips I've been on where a really good tent guyed properly had the tent fly rip or flap and have to be re-guyed etc. Not fun in the middle of the night in really bad weather. This sort of stuff never happens with a tent like the Bibler or other state-of-the-art single wall mountaineering tent. Sure, most of the time who needs it, but if you do expect to camp where you might need it, hey, it is worth every penny. No lost sleep wondering if your tent will survive the night. Same story with high quality kayaks. Paddle a plastic Carolina; camp in a Eureka. Paddle a kevlar VCP boat; camp in a Bibler.