My observations from bony rivers:
Poly boats, royalex boats, composite boats and thermoform boats all scraping several miles down river. Thermoform boats show the least surface abuse.
YMMV.
Good point
How much is the thermoformed? Can’t find it at the Kayak Center website.
don’t know
The OP didn’t say.
And I’m too lazy to go searching.
not enough
That’s not enough given the marginal price break. Once the bottom of your boat is scratched, it’s scratched. OTOH once it suffers structural damage I know which one I’d want to try and repair. And thermoform has no fabric matrix with the obvious advantages.
I think one of two things will happen:
- Sales will decrease after the initial novelty wears off due to the marginal price break (maybe less so for rec boats).
or
- The price will be lowered.
Until then I can’t justify a choice between composite and thermoform.
Thermoform
One of the points not mentioned is that the migration of kayak manufacturers to Asia. This is because they feel they cannot compete with US labor and environmental requirements. I am responsible for having Rockpool TCC kayaks made in the by Eddyline. The workplace is is immaculate, the employees are well paid and the workmanship is first rate. I don’t have to worry about quality. The waste material is recycled and easily repaired. When you discuss the difference in price between Fiberglass composite and Thermoform all factors should be considered.
Falcon
I might add…
That the boat (Alaw) absolutely rocks !!! And these Rockpool USA people are an absolute dream to deal with in every way.
Thanks for…
…getting a TF RockPool for the US market. Since mine was a demo and was pre-nicked up, I tend to treat it in an ‘insensitive manner’. As mentioned above, I managed to drop it off the top of my car onto a hard surface with nary a mark (but I promise to be more careful).
With hip pads the boat fits great and has proven to be fantastic. This October I spent a few days down at Tybee Island in Georgia and had a great time doing rough water & surfing class and the boat was fabulous.
And it is much more stable and easier to roll than my previous boat.
why should I care?
– Last Updated: Dec-16-11 12:20 PM EST –
Not to be flippant, but I think it's the MANUFACTURER who should factor in the recyclability of thermoform. Which one of us has a greater use for recycled thermoform, Rockpool or me?
It looks like Rockpool make outstanding boats. I haven't seen Rockpool's price spread so in your case it might make sense to purchase thermoform. But IMO it doesn't make sense to me in Valley's case. Their composite boats are well-made out of the box.
I'm not sure what it is that I'm saying that is so illogical, but I can assure you I'm not the only sea kayaker of this mindset.
Still active thread???
Sorry, all…but thought this baby had been put to bed!!
IRT price point - in this case anyway, the retailer has agreed to drop it to within $200 of the price of a new Avocet RM. ($900 off new price)
Does that change anyone’s feelings about value? Honestly though, I am more concerned about durability and rock rash/bashing than cost. I thought I could find that magical universe where you could get a boat that was as fast and pretty as fiberglass while being tough as the RM ones.
I just don’t want to wake up from my dream… 
eddyline
No idea about Valley thermoformed but Eddyline has a nice video on how to repair there thermoformed kayaks. Just use a epoxy glue. I bought a used Eddyline Nighthawk 16 which was scratched up a bit and was able to buff most scratches away and deeper ones i used epoxy that eddyline recommends and mixed with a little white paint and filled deeper scratch then wet sanded and buff. Cant tell were it was now.
depends on your usage
At $200 above plastic, it’s great for anyone wanting a touring boat but can’t afford the price of fiberglass!
However, as a “play boat”, the reason people buy plastic Avocet isn’t because it’s cheap. It’s because they don’t want to do frequent repairs. Regular plastic boat has a lot of ‘give’, therefore most “hard knocks” from rocks only result in scratches instead of cracks requiring repair.
If your reason for looking at plastic is trash it and toss it without feeling the pain of money flying out your pocket. I would say the new thermoformed plastic will very likely to be more durable than traditional plastic. So that $200 premium will buy you a lot more year of use.
But if you plan to take the boat to white water or rock garden a lot, You might be better off with a traditional rotormold plastic boat.
it changes my opinion as long as
– Last Updated: Dec-16-11 8:08 PM EST –
The thermoform is of higher quality like eddyline or rockpool, for example. That would get me to bite!
What abc says above has some merit though.
Mine was baptized there…
…Oct 13-21…must’ve just missed you…it’s going back with me next week for Xmas.
Dude…
…you never keep a boat long enough to beat it up…get either and keep the Rapier pristene for me.
Yeah…
…looks like you were leaving as I was arriving for the Sea Kayak Georgia symposium. I took two of the classes. The second class was the two day rough water & surfing class taught by Danny Mongo & friend.
I actually managed to score about a 20% improvement in rolling from just one sentence from Danny. He doesn’t miss much.
Saw lots of sexy kayaks down there. The sexiest were probably the Tiderace models. You want to have one because they just look so cool:)
Nonsense and insinuation
– Last Updated: Dec-19-11 1:59 PM EST –
I'm sorry, but this is another example of your purposely misleading drivel.
Manufacturers have moved to Asia specifically because facilities that can produce composite sea kayaks to quality and quantity on a consistent basis are hard to source in the US and Europe.
Plants such as Cobra in Thailand are run to full Western ISO standards and manufacture to a standard that most US and European producers would only dream of. That is why Audi and Ferrari use them for composites, for example.
It's all very easy to use fear and intimation about manufacturers going to the Far East for cheap pricing at the expense of quality or even 'green' credentials. It is crass for you to sit here and hide behind recycling to insinuate your product is in some way 'green'. It's not and the difference is barely worth talking about.
How many plastic Rockpools are really going to be recycled into whatever, once their first, second or eleventy third user moves on to a better product? I'd love to see even one.
I digress. The reality is, manfacturers using producers such as Cobra actually are getting a superior product, but not necessarily at a cheaper price. I know of one manufacturer paying more per product now than they were in Europe- although at a vastly improved quality compared to before. I believe there's a US based manufacturer also using the same facility who would also have a similar story.
It is very rich for someone like you to come on here, with a vested interest, producing a boat in a material the original designer would reject as unsuitable for the intended performance of the boat, to have an unnecessary and ill founded dig at manufacturers who have the decency to produce their own designs in modern and advanced materials that are frankly at least better than a souped up TV remote.
Avocet RM
As it turns out - I have found a 2008 Avocet RM in triple dump that is in great shape. Bottom scratches are there, but not shredded - and at $700 this is a bargain I just can’t pass up!
Guess that thermoformed Avocet at Kayak Centre will have to go to someone else instead - and “Blackboat” - that Rapier 20 may not come up for sale for some time so be patient or be prepared to swap something sleek for it!! LOL
easy there, no need to get personal
vested interest
At least I disclosed mine.
Falcon
I hope you told the retailer
It sounds like they were really interested in your sale and they did drop the price significantly. Hopefully you told them and didn’t just leave them hanging.