@Rookie said:
This event is so horrific I can’t wrap my head around it. Two adults and three little kids in one kayak. Workable maybe close to shore - but their crossings were two miles or more. Some reports claim it was 13-feet long, but I can’t imagine how that’s possible.
I got the impression they were already on the island paddling from it. I too looked at the shortest possible crossing, but figured they’d have been smarter than to try that.
@kayamedic said:
@PaddleDog52 said:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/09/01/father-3-young-children-die-in-kayaking-accident-on-lake-superior-mother-survives.html60° water 3-4" waves
I didn’t see mention of water temp but those wave heights make no sense.
Having been there no wind results in three inch waves
Other article
Authorities tell us while this family of tourists visiting Madeline Island was out on the lake, the weather in the area started to change, causing wave swells between 3 and 4 feet.
@kayamedic said:
We had to get a permit for overnight camping. The ranger read us the safety rules.
But on day trips I don’t know if the safety rules are relayed except by rangers at popular launch points
Madeline island is where they set off from, and Madeline Island is the only one of the Apostles that is not part of the National Park/Lakeshore. Hence, they would have received no such information unless they sought it out on their own. Michigan Island is 3 miles away (if they started from the north end of Madeline), and within the National Lakeshore.
There is a car ferry to Madeline Island from the mainland. So they didn’t have to pass through the park at all to get there.
My thoughts are she survived stayed with the boat didn’t swim much didn’t lose body temp as quickly. Kids less thermal mass and father may have tried swimming with kids and lost more body temp. :’(
sorry but kayaks / canoes need clearly visible capacity labels weight and number of people. Also warning label of water temp danger like stated above may be a simpler version.
Water Temperature Expected Time Before Exhaustion or Unconsciousness Expected Time of Survival
(°F) (°C)
32.5° 0.3° < 15 minutes 45 minutes
32.5–40° 0.3–4.4° 15 – 30 minutes 30 – 90 minutes
40–50° 3.3–10° 30 – 60 minutes 1 – 3 hours
50–60° 10–15.6° 1 – 2 hours 1 – 6 hours
60–70° 15.6–21.1° 2 – 7 hours 2 – 40 hours
70–80° 21.1–26.7° 3 – 12 hours 3 hours – indefinite
rental or their kayak?
I dont think she stayed with the kayak, she returned to it to retrieve something including a flashlight and that saved her life. But she left the kayak and tried to swim back after her husband and kids
I doubt anyone would have rented them a kayak knowing where they were headed, so it was probably theirs.
ok more info thanks qaj
@PaddleDog52 said:
sorry but kayaks / canoes need clearly visible capacity labels weight and number of people. Also warning label of water temp danger like stated above may be a simpler version.
Weight ratings already in place are meaningless, unless one is already familiar with the method used by the manufacturer to determine that rating, and already knowledgeable enough to know whether it’s a useful rating for real-life paddling or one that only applies in glass-calm water while close to shore (yes, that’s how far apart the different rating systems are, and I sure don’t want any legislator that I’ve ever heard of sticking his nose into that and thinking he/she knows enough to make a useful difference. We all know what happens then). As far as the number of persons that the boat can handle, in the case of a SOT kayak, that should be obvious based on the number of seats, and in the case of a canoe, clearly any boat made for two people (for example) can handle an additional small child or two in calm conditions if the two adults are not already pushing the weight limit. I’d hate to see the option of families with young children to safely enjoy a suitable canoe to be eliminated just because some bone-headed legislation says they cannot.
@Sparky961 said:
@Rookie said:
This event is so horrific I can’t wrap my head around it. Two adults and three little kids in one kayak. Workable maybe close to shore - but their crossings were two miles or more. Some reports claim it was 13-feet long, but I can’t imagine how that’s possible.I got the impression they were already on the island paddling from it. I too looked at the shortest possible crossing, but figured they’d have been smarter than to try that.
They had camped on Madeline Island, then headed out to “explore” by heading for Michigan Island according to the captain of the ship who rescued her. The shortest crossing from Madeline to Michigan I came up with is three miles.
BTW, my latest boat has a yellow safety warning stick in the cockpit. It tells me how dangerous paddling a kayak is, that I could be injured, that I should take lessons, and that I should never paddle alone. Sure.
“Never paddle alone.” This is why I don’t want safety laws in regard to paddling (or in regard to numerous other things). When the day comes that standard safety warnings such as this one are backed up by law, it will cause many opportunities to have fun in small boats to disappear, or turn some of us into scofflaws.
Dreadful.
Perhaps this kind of tragedy does not happen as often as it seems it should because it takes multiple things to go south. If above is correct I very much doubt they planned to make a 3 mile open crossing. Especially with 5 people. But if weather came up quickly no telling how far off shore they may have been sent.
I still am not capturing parts of this story. Like what craft they were in that could have carried 5 people plus even minimal camping gear out to the island unless it was a canoe or a large fishing kayak. Suspect something is wrong yet with those kind of details. But it matters little to the survivor.
@kayamedic said:
We had to get a permit for overnight camping. The ranger read us the safety rules.
But on day trips I don’t know if the safety rules are relayed except by rangers at popular launch points
You are supposed to have a camping permit. However it appears that you can honor system purchase one at a drop box at each island. We saw them on Sand Island and Baswood. The park has only one National park launch, Meyers Beach. Little Sand Bay, Red Cliff, the beach at Bayfield and on Madaline Island are not controlled launches. So they wouldn’t necessarily get the rules lecture. Here is the islands.
@Rookie said:
@Sparky961 said:
@Rookie said:
This event is so horrific I can’t wrap my head around it. Two adults and three little kids in one kayak. Workable maybe close to shore - but their crossings were two miles or more. Some reports claim it was 13-feet long, but I can’t imagine how that’s possible.I got the impression they were already on the island paddling from it. I too looked at the shortest possible crossing, but figured they’d have been smarter than to try that.
They had camped on Madeline Island, then headed out to “explore” by heading for Michigan Island according to the captain of the ship who rescued her. The shortest crossing from Madeline to Michigan I came up with is three miles.
I stand corrected, and will add this to the already long list of poor choices.
@Guideboatguy said:
@PaddleDog52 said:
sorry but kayaks / canoes need clearly visible capacity labels weight and number of people. Also warning label of water temp danger like stated above may be a simpler version.Weight ratings already in place are meaningless, unless one is already familiar with the method used by the manufacturer to determine that rating, and already knowledgeable enough to know whether it’s a useful rating for real-life paddling or one that only applies in glass-calm water while close to shore (yes, that’s how far apart the different rating systems are, and I sure don’t want any legislator that I’ve ever heard of sticking his nose into that and thinking he/she knows enough to make a useful difference. We all know what happens then). As far as the number of persons that the boat can handle, in the case of a SOT kayak, that should be obvious based on the number of seats, and in the case of a canoe, clearly any boat made for two people (for example) can handle an additional small child or two in calm conditions if the two adults are not already pushing the weight limit. I’d hate to see the option of families with young children to safely enjoy a suitable canoe to be eliminated just because some bone-headed legislation says they cannot.
Small boats all have ratings now. People still have fun in them. People are bone headed that is why this happens. Were there 5 seats in a 13 foot kayak?
I see local kayak places rent kayaks to people with a small kid in small 2 seat tandems all the time and the water is 55°. Ocean Malibu 2 has 425 lb. Rating. Ian all geared up in a drysuit with a cell in bag and TWO VHF radios and they have a 2-3 year old in shorts sitting in there boat.
I see local kayak places rent kayaks to people with a small kid in small 2 seat tandems all the time and the water is 55°. Ocean Malibu
@PaddleDog52 said:
Small boats all have ratings now. People still have fun in them. People are bone headed that is why this happens. Were there 5 seats in a 13 foot kayak?
I was responding to that earlier statement about ratings and whether that would have changed anything about the event discussed here (which you now imply it wouldn’t have), and whether strict adherence to such ratings as dictated by law (ratings which would never be adequately detailed) would be meaningful in all situations.
ratings are better than nothing some people can never be saved from themselves.
