If one compares the assessment syllabus of the old system vs the new system, the new versions are quite brief, and not nearly as specific.
One purpose is to avoid "teaching to the test". The new version allows for greater individual expression; if the candidate maintains safe technique, and can demonstrate many different ways to accomplish a task, that comes more to the point.
The reverse figure 8 is certainly a great task for skill development, and I am sure many coaches will still employ it during training. As for the assessment, in the new 2* it requires "manoeuvring and positioning in and out of a confined space". In the new 3* sea, reverse paddling must be "accurate and efficient...utilising coastal features and other paddlers". And in the new 3* whitewater syllabus...surprise! "reverse over a figure of 8 course".
One could imagine (or if they have taken a new 2* or 3* sea from me) that, given those descriptions, a reverse figure 8 will could be an easy intro compared to what a candidate might actually be asked to do during an assessment :)
Objective Standards? “One could imagine (or if they have taken a new 2* or 3* sea from me) that, given those descriptions, a reverse figure 8 will could be an easy intro compared to what a candidate might actually be asked to do during an assessment :)”
Which causes me to make the following unrelated comment. I have heard from time to time one BCU whatever star paddler badmouthing another BCU whatever star paddler on the grounds the other paddler’s whatever star assessor was not as strict/rigid/demanding/skilled/expert as theirs and thus the other paddler’s whatever star award was of dubious validity and certainly not the equal of theirs. Or for some to indicate they deliberately sought/cultivated an assessor known to be “easy”.
I assume like in many things there are regional difference and the process is inherently subjective to some degree. Its just that such comments by some participants in the BCU system don’t do much that is positive and lead some to say, “No thanks.”
That’s silly. You avoid the BCU because you don’t like the actions/words of certain BCU paddlers?
You know there is good and bad in everything and you know how to sort through that. Pick the instructors that are good - regardless of BCU/ACA or whatever and same for the people you paddle with.
you’re right I forget ‘remit’ and RCO. In my dictionary, ‘remit’ is used in another sense. It seems BCU has its own jargon (it seems like you’re the only one to ever use these words–check out the thread). RCO I’ll just have to remember. Sometimes it’s helpful to define a term the first time you give it/use it. A good rule of thumb.
Please don’t try so hard That is, IMO, willful misinterpretation.
The assessment standards are frequently compared and discussed among coaches, with an eye towards consistency. Personal and regional differences will occur, of course, like anything. But there is awareness of this issue within the BCU.
My statement had more to do with the clear requirements of the new assessments, which are now “real world” tasks. I am certainly not intentionally a hard ass, but the reality is that going backwards under control in the real world can make backwards figure 8s, while reasonable practice, a bit artificial. If someone does not do a backwards figure 8 as well as possible, there is difficulty in giving/receiving feedback, since there may be no clear boundaries for performance. Not so in the real world tasks.
Also note, that I, like many assessors, do not look at assessments as merely passing/failing a test. It is more a series of challenging tasks; the results are about giving good feedback, not really about pass/fail.
You seem to have a VERY abridged dictionary, very short memory, and narrow vocabulary.
I'm sorry that you cannot remember the thread a short time ago when you asked about 'remit'. Memory loss is a serious problem for which there are often effective tactics and strategies to address if not remedy.
It might be worthwhile consulting a better dictionary. Many of us have dictionaries which contain more than one definition for many words.
I did not say me I was reporting comments I have heard on both sides from others. I don’t think anyone can say that stuff does not happen and it does not affect how people perceive the people and process. I could say something similar about GP fanatics too. It is an unfortunate reality that might as well be acknowledged and it accepted there are turkeys about.
Personally, I have taken and no doubt will take various standard BCU training sessions specific to Star levels as well as use BCU coaches for privately developed classes/instruction. Think highly, professionally and personally, of the coaches I have met and training received.
We've all seem some things that we thought looked "dodgy" and at some time probably all commented on them.
But we have to believe that an assessment was administered within the range of conditions required and we have to take into consideration that maybe that same paddler we look at in wonder about what they're doing, had a good day. Conversely, folks have bad days too and maybe that's when we see them and grumble - when they get caught on those bad days.
It's up to the assessor administering the suss on THAT DAY to determine if someone has fulfilled the requirement in the conditions specified. Which, if you think about it, is just a snapshot in time. Like I said, maybe someone had a good, bordering on great day. How would the assessor know if THAT'S the only day they're seeing that paddler? And maybe that someone is having a bad day today when you're seeing them...how do you know?
I like paddling. I like teaching...I don't think I would like to assess anyone....too much pressure! Talk about a thankless job...you're too hard, too easy....some folks take anything you say far too seriously, some may get upset if they fail but hey, if they passed, then it's all them. Others may have a bonehead moment after they've passed that could later be thought of as reflecting poorly on you. Yuck...no thanks! Hats off to the folks doing the assessing!
I hear what you're saying but believe that because most folks that have been through the training have, within individual limitations/understanding, the same skills/background that there is/was something backing up the system.
On the whole, I think it works. Is it perfect? No. Can it ever be? No. Opinions will vary.
Besides that eel...we bitch, we moan. If you find a way around that human nature, let me know...I could certainly use a lesson!
Overly Defensive? My comments were not about you, not related to what you said, and were not critical period. They were intended to address an issue I have heard raised often. I meant to convey my opinion that I consider the actions I described by those who profess to be supporters of the BCU organization/system to be unfortunate and counterproductive. OK?
The wrath of Bohemia usually follows the use of distinctive Brit words like remit and whilst. You can bet he’s cringing now about “dodgy”. Wanna really rattle a stick on his cage?
There are days… I’ve known a lot of people who had to take the old 4 star assessment twice because even what they thought were minor pangs of tension created one of their worst days ever, then they came back the second time with a little skill tweaking as well as more comfort with the assessment and did great. I started my recent (and first) attempt at the new 3 star assessment with some anxiety issues I hadn’t had in the memory of my fellow candidate from our local group, and while I got some tough back in the afternoon that bad start just killed the day.
Some paddlers are like that almost all the time, notably better and worse days or higher tension levels when trying something new. I have weekends like that at times - the last one on surf this last spring. The boat had a different paddler in her on Sunday than was there on Saturday and they were both me. It can be easy to think that the assessments are more inconsistent than they really are when you see this stuff.
If there is a problem with the BCU changes, it’s that the coaches haven’t had the same kind of time and experience to talk amongst themselves and get to the kind of well-shared standards that they had gotten to with the old awards. But that will happen - it’ll just take a little time.
... likes catching the same fish over and over again.
I find it curious how they all so smartly queue up for him every time. Must be something innate to (star)fish behavior. Oops, they're called Sea Stars now. Probably renamed by some British Society or other. ;)
Yes, the prior L2 BCU coach cert… … is certainly worth something in the transition to the new scheme. All I meant was that some major functions of the old L2 – to train and certify 2* paddlers – are now gone.
Furthermore, I wonder how many beginning kayakers on this side of the pond are even interested in canoe training. A few I asked say they aren’t. But maybe they will jump through that hoop for the benefit of starting on the BCU track even if they aren’t interested. After all, when a coach says something is good for you students tend to accept it.
Anybody know how attendance and feedback from students at new-style BCU 2* events are going? That seems to me to be the crucial data here.
Not so… DJ, Perhaps you should read the new L2 Coach qualifications again. According to the coach (I am not using the 3 letter title for someone who’s, well, you all ought to know by now:)) who assessed my husband, once you pass the canoe segment – and it’s not brain science, btw – a L2 coach can, indeed, do the new 2* assessments.
It’s only a hour in canoe. Surely someone of your skill level in a kayak could pass it.
As for the new reqs making students unwilling to have anything to do with the BCU because of a canoe: Negative thinking and talk from a coach really advances paddle sport, kayaking included.
Did North America even have a vote? You mention the four bodies as England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Does that mean BCU North America didn’t even get a vote? One would think the Brits of all people would have learned from experience what happens when people lack representation in governing bodies – empires fall.
I keep coming back to the fact that regardless of whether canoeing is fun or useful practice, it is not an appropriate standard on which to assess kayaking ability. A backward figure 8 is at least a kayaking skill. Its a good thing the BCU fans don’t run the Department of Motor Vehicles because if they did (and if they were consistent in their logic) they would require driving tests to include motorcycle skills. Motorcycles are fun and good cross training for driving cars, so they ought to be required to pass the car tests, right?
We know how you feel. We respect how you feel. The deed is done but nobody is making you plunk your butt in a canoe for the assessment. As Jim said, it's the BRITISH canoe union and it is what it is. Unlike pre-Revolutionary War America,nobody is making you participate in a system that you clearly have a lot of issues with.
You want an assessment that doesn't involve a canoe or any other water craft as you think cross training is useless? Go with the ACA, or better yet, just paddle. Ultimately, paddling your kayak and paddling it well and safely is all that should matter. Stars and certificates and how you obtain them now, as in the past, is just gravy.