Our local sea kayak club has a member named Richard that paddles a Eddyline, Caribbean 14ft SOT. He’s paddled with us 26miles on the Altamaha/Satillia river paddle, including an ocean leg. He also uses it to provide safety boat for the 2.5 mile ocean swim for a local tri club. Seems to handle surf just fine. Of course for all boats it is likely the paddler that makes most of the difference.
Tarpon’s scuppers are just open, but there are plenty of them. Nothing in the boat stays underwater long.
My Ocean Kayak has scuppers that are just holes through the hull. I get a splashed butt on forward paddle “surges”. Epics have venturi bailers.
@Overstreet said:
My Ocean Kayak has scuppers that are just holes through the hull. I get a splashed butt on forward paddle “surges”. Epics have venturi bailers.
What are venturi bailers? How wet do simple scuppers get you? I was under the impression that you wont have water coming up the scupper holes until you have water splashing over the bow/sides at which point it doesnt matter anyway
@Sincress: cobra had one years ago…
Search for a Hop on top seadart which then became the Heritage seadart in plastic…
top end sea kayak that is a sit on top…17’ was a beaut…
(running back into the shadows now, shh…I was not here!)
Venturis only work when the boat is moving, fast. I weigh 230 lb and the only one I had water coming in the scuppers was the Eddyline Carribean.
A SOT kayak - compared to a comparable (length and load) SIT kayak - is wider, higher and heavier with a less optimal hull design for paddling.
Sit On Top Kayak
Pros:
- Much easier to get on and off while on the water or at shore.
- Much easier access while on the water to (bulky) gear (e.g. fishing).
- Eliminates fear of being trapped in a flipped kayak - this is often a MAJOR concern of novices.
Cons:
- Centre of gravity is higher so for stability boat must be wider and therefore is (significantly) slower. Increased width makes maneuvering sluggish and increased height increases susceptibility to wind. Edging is very limited.
- Paddler sits higher off the water which makes paddling more tiring and less efficient.
- More difficult to properly brace feet-knees-back.
- Generally speaking most SOT seats do not provide good back support.
- Material used (only ever seen polyethylene) limits achieving optimal hull design.
- Boats are inherently heavier and therefore are made shorter (shorter = slower).
- Paddler and gear are exposed to waves. SOTs are not suitable for skirts.
- There is less storage space.
So … SOT is best for near-shore ‘play’ kayaking or fishing (etc.) on calm water.
SIT is for, if I may, more ‘real world’ paddling.
My partner and I live on Vancouver Island and do a lot of paddling, both ocean and lake waters and in all kinds of weather. I have a 12 ft Stellar and my partner, who has bad knees and is only able to use a sit on top kayak, owns the 12 ft Eddyline Caribbean and absolute loves it… the seat is extremely comfortable, it tracks well, has ample storage and is light enough at 45 lbs to put on top on our vehicle. I like my Stellar but I have to say her eddyline is more comfortable, a tad slower but a great sit on top kayak.
@Sincress said:
@Overstreet said:
My Ocean Kayak has scuppers that are just holes through the hull. I get a splashed butt on forward paddle “surges”. Epics have venturi bailers.What are venturi bailers? How wet do simple scuppers get you? I was under the impression that you wont have water coming up the scupper holes until you have water splashing over the bow/sides at which point it doesnt matter anyway
“Bailers” are found in more expensive boats than most SOTs. If you are a light weight you won’t have scupper problems. If you are a Lilly Dipper you won’t have water up the scuppers.
If you’re a heavy strong paddler your boat sits lower. Your strong strokes will push water up the scuppers.
Kayaking is a wet sport. Don’t think you will stay dry. Unwritten law is that People that try and get in the boat without getting their feet wet often end up falling in and getting everything wet.
@Overstreet said:
Kayaking is a wet sport. Don’t think you will stay dry. Unwritten law is that People that try and get in the boat without getting their feet wet often end up falling in and getting everything wet.
Well I personally don’t mind getting my feet wet but do mind sitting in a pool of water for several hours. Which is why I ask. Most kayaks have some kind of a raised seat and thus at least you’re not swimming. If you have similar freeboard in a sit inside and a sit on top which gets a ton of water through the scupper holes, you’re better off with a sit inside.
I am not a real fan of SOT kayaks, especially the plastic kind. I like a boat that can get out of its own way and most plastic boats aren’t really capable of it. There are a lot of entry level surfskis out there. Fenn has a couple, Nelo, Think, Epic and a few others have them too. They would work much better as a sea kayak because they are capable of covering a lot more ground than most SOTs.
This explains how scuppers can be made to keep the cockpit dry–these are surfski features, and so engineered to reduce the boat’s speed as little as possible while doing their job.
The Bernoulli effect is also mentioned sometimes. These are passive systems, as compared to the one-way scupper plugs which contain ball-float stoppers.
The Hurricane Skimmer uses a backward-facing step configuration, on the front scupper, at least. I can’t guess why they didn’t do the same with the rear one. You can see it clearly in this video at about 1:45:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLxMV9fc3r8
The scuppers on my Perception Tribe 11.5 are neutral; they behave the same regardless of the boat’s direction of travel. They constantly make percolating noises.
The ones on the old Ocean Kayak Scrambler I had were forward-active, although they never completely drained the footwell, they worked quite effectively at even slow forward speeds, and if I paddled backwards they would flood the cockpit.
@greyheron very interesting, I haven’t considered how the shape and direction of scupper holes impacts their behavior. Pretty nice boat in the review, shame we don’t get any of those in (this part of) Europe. No WS or Perception boats, no Eddylines either.
If I ever get a SOT my best bet is a plain basic Pelican Sentinel 100X which will be plenty enough for daytrips and swimming. That said, I think I’m still going for a sit in as my first (and only) rigid kayak.
@string said:
A friend just bought a used tandem SOT that has windscreens in front of each seat. Don’t know the name but it has a sleek hull and was made in Europe. And it’s fast!
@Sincress said:
That’s very intriguing, I’d love to know the model. Has anyone tried adding a deck onto a SOT? Just curiousity.
@Sincress. Back in the late 1990’s, Ocean Kayak had 2 hybrid SOT/SINK convertible models: the Manta 16 and the Dawn Trakker. Both were SOT’s that had a hard cockpit cover (picture a rigid hard plastic spray skirt) that you could add to the kayak to make it a “SINK” -
@sully505 said:
@Sincress. Back in the late 1990’s, Ocean Kayak had 2 hybrid SOT/SINK convertible models: the Manta 16 and the Dawn Trakker. Both were SOT’s that had a hard cockpit cover (picture a rigid hard plastic spray skirt) that you could add to the kayak to make it a “SINK” -
Googled these two, haven’t found much on the Manta 16 but I absolutely love the Dawn Trekker! Looks amazing, a shame they dont make them anymore, I’d love to have one.
I’ve owned two SOT’s, one for touring and one for fishing. My Cobra Expedition was fast and paddled straight. It had 5 hatches and weighed around 50 pounds. It was a great sea kayak for what it was. Yes, it was wet, but my gear stayed dry. I could paddle all day and keep up with other sea kayaks. It was as long and narrow as any SInK.
My Eddyline Caribbean is short and stout. I use it for fishing. However, it handles waves and wind just fine. I don’t consider it a sea kayak, not because it’s a SOT, but because it’s designed for fishing. Both do what they’re meant to do.
Yes this topic has been discussed to death the last 19 or so years I have been visiting Pnet. You will find a lot people posting truisms about SOTs ; usually these people have only paddled wide fishing style or barge SOTs. Around about 2000 there were several companies in the US that sold very sleek and seaworthy SOTs, some of them made of composites and they were quite light. These companies have slowly been consumed by big sporting good conglomerates that now mostly market to the wider market of people who don’t have skills and don’t paddle on moving water. Surf skis are certainly closely related to SOTs and most folks I know who were into fast hull SOTs for ocean paddling are now into surf skis. The line about SOTs not really being practical for real conditions is bunk. In the early 2000s I used to do coastal paddles with seakayaks in club paddles about half the time in a SINK and half in my old Heritage Seadart, I ended up rescuing SINK paddlers many many times who could not handle breaking coastal waves, The lowly Ocean Kayak Scrambler mentioned above is actually a very seaworthy boat and we have surfed it in huge violent surf in Baja with violent haystacks and rebounding waves from cliffs… I surf waveskis which are the ultimate paddle surf tool, and they are just very well designed SOT boats based on surfboards. The main advantage of seakayks is the low profile for paddling in winds, and keeping your gear semi-dry. The main advantage of SOTs is the ability to self rescue instantly in the event of a capsize, without having to pump out the boat. In my opinion if you paddle alone on the ocean, you should do it in a good seaworthy SOT. Sure it’s possible to re-enter and roll a seakayak, but I suspect of the people I know on Pnet, only a handful can pull this off in bad conditions.
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@SeaDart said:
Yes this topic has been discussed to death the last 19 or so years I have been visiting Pnet. You will find a lot people posting truisms about SOTs ; usually these people have only paddled wide fishing style or barge SOTs. Around about 2000 there were several companies in the US that sold very sleek and seaworthy SOTs, some of them made of composites and they were quite light. These companies have slowly been consumed by big sporting good conglomerates that now mostly market to the wider market of people who don’t have skills and don’t paddle on moving water. Surf skis are certainly closely related to SOTs and most folks I know who were into fast hull SOTs for ocean paddling are now into surf skis. The line about SOTs not really being practical for real conditions is bunk. In the early 2000s I used to do coastal paddles with seakayaks in club paddles about half the time in a SINK and half in my old Heritage Seadart, I ended up rescuing SINK paddlers many many times who could not handle breaking coastal waves, The lowly Ocean Kayak Scrambler mentioned above is actually a very seaworthy boat and we have surfed it in huge violent surf in Baja with violent haystacks and rebounding waves from cliffs… I surf waveskis which are the ultimate paddle surf tool, and they are just very well designed SOT boats based on surfboards. The main advantage of seakayks is the low profile for paddling in winds, and keeping your gear semi-dry. The main advantage of SOTs is the ability to self rescue instantly in the event of a capsize, without having to pump out the boat. In my opinion if you paddle alone on the ocean, you should do it in a good seaworthy SOT. Sure it’s possible to re-enter and roll a seakayak, but I suspect of the people I know on Pnet, only a handful can pull this off in bad conditions.
Amen!
@greyheron The difference in weight between the RTM Disco and the Tarpon 140 is likely due to the difference in dimensions, not material. The Disco is 1.5 inches less in width and an inch less in depth than the Tarpon.
The idea that all sit on tops are the same, with the same characteristics is astounding. Open decked sea kayaks exist. This. https://www.mirageseakayaks.com.au/mirage-583-adventure