Tiny Female Beginner - Buying Advice?

MIKO
is a very good company but with your skill level and more importantly budget contraints, I’m not sure they would have what you are looking for–in your price range --best idea is to call them first and talk to them about how much you want to spend and your experience level—my piece of advice is why the rush??? Don’t make the same mistake I’ve done at least three times and buy boats without trying them—sign up for some classes at a local dealer or club—they may have demo boats or members may loan you some boats for lessons—that way you can paddle before you decide which one you want to buy.

Down the road…

– Last Updated: May-07-08 8:55 PM EST –

You probably don't want to build your first boat, but there are lots of options if you want to try that route. Here are just a couple:

http://www.pygmyboats.com/mall/Osprey13.asp
http://www.pygmyboats.com/mall/arctic_tern_14.asp

http://www.yostwerks.com/

http://www.redfishkayak.com/parr.htm (14' version)

http://www.shearwater-boats.com/merg1.html (Merganser 16)

http://www.qajaqusa.org/Equipment/kayaks.html

For a much simpler simple project, you could build a custom Greenland-style paddle to use with any boat:

http://www.qajaqusa.org/Equipment/paddles.html

Before the boat
If you don’t already own one, I’d buy a comfortable paddling PFD. You’re over the 90-pound threshold that the Coast Guard considers a youth size, so you’re probably looking for an adult XS.



You might also think about getting a paddle that fits you before you get a boat. Using a familiar paddle to demo boats eliminates a big variable.

plus it’s not British

Same size cockpit as QCC boats -
except for the Q10, which has a smaller cockpit entry measurements.

??? I want to see this
I’ve paddled the Merlin for 3 years and for the life of me I cannot visualize a 6’ 180 lb person sliding around in that cockpit. Stop by next time you’re in RI. I really wanna see this. :slight_smile:

Merlin LT compared to…

– Last Updated: May-08-08 4:18 PM EST –

Either of my sea kayaks has a pretty wide cockpit. My short sea kayak is a P&H Vela - high enough front deck that I padded the thigh braces down a bit but nice and narrow. It takes a small deck skirt, Seals 1.2 and frankly could use a skirt cut narrower. The sides aren't exactly watertight. My other boat is an Explorer LV, with an extra small keyhole cockpit that is basically a not-big ocean cockpit with a keyhole extension in front. The Romany LV has the same extra small cockpit.

I am quite sure that the Merlin LT cockpit, at least in any of them I've sat in, is bigger than either of my boats. Wider than the Vela and bigger in all dimensions than NDK's extra small cockpit. And that it was the Merlin LT - I've been in the other boats you mention.

I'd guess, but can't be certain, that it is also a good bit bigger than the Avocet LV cockpit as well as being effectively wider than in the Force 3 because of how far back Impex ran those thigh braces.

The only way I can see this being way off is if they redid that cockpit in the last couple of years.

One of the better jobs I've ever seen of making a cockpit that a bigger person will get into comfortably but still offers good control for an average sized woman is the original DS Necky Elaho. It was quite long to fit longer legs but still pretty narrow, and had aggressive WW thigh braces. While I don't hit the volume right in that boat, those thigh braces give me as much control as my husband.

Tampico 136 S-the magic slipper!
I’m short at 5 ft 1 (shrinking too!) and the Tampico fits great for me. Having front and rear bulkheads is a super safety feature. I have no problem by the way keeping up with any of the paddlers we go with in their longer boats. Cant’ beat the price versus weight and the Hurricanes have exceeded our expectations on their durability in case you wonder about their pretty looks.

neither is my Elaho DS :wink:
The deck on the sprayskirts I use most for my boats is size medium. This is the size I use for my Necky Elaho DS, NDK Romany, as well as Valley Nordkapp LV and Aquanaut. All smaller cockpit openings than the Merlin LT.



The cockpit in the Merlin LT is not particularly small.



BTW, Eddyline lists the Merlin LT as medium volume.

Merlin LT
It does have a bigger cockpit opening, but the seat is narrow and the coaming has thighbrace extensions, plus it’s a low deck. It always seemed like a pretty tight fit to me. I can roll it with no padding, which is my acid test of whether a boat fits a smaller person. My Ellesmere has an OC but I still had to pad out the underside of the coaming to get good contact with my legs. Maybe my judgement and perception are impaired from breathing 303 fumes all these years. %-)



Anyway, I think this horse has been beaten to death.

LIghter for women
Unfortunately, lighter means more money since you have to go to glass. Men don’t like lugging around a 65 lb. boat ether. Probably in our life time we’ll see much lighter and stronger plastic kayaks. More men kayak than women but that’s leveling out. As more women make up the market things will change with more offerings in low volume. Many people paddle boats made for lugging camping gear and never camp. It’s an old tradition coming from the early days of expedition paddlers. New paddlers like to have a nice bend in their legs and the larger volume caters to that too. After you paddle for a while, your body gets conditioned to the paddling posture and you need less leg room. But they might never sell the same boat to a beginner if it was too low volume.

Swift Kiwassa
Have you looked at the Kiwassa by Swift Canoe & Kayak? It’s an amazing boat, and was built specifically for smaller females. You can get it in Kevlar (only 32 lbs!) or Trylon (44 lbs). I’m not sure where you are in NH, but if want to stop by our store sometime (we’re in the Lake Sunapee region), you can take a look at one. We offer free demos, too. Our website is www.sunapeeoutfitters.com, and you can learn more about the Kiwassa at www.swiftcanoe.com.

Tiny Female Beginner - Buying Advice?
I just got my wife a Current Designs Vision 140 and this is a great little kayak that she can carry and works well in chop. They come with rudder and weigh in at 39 lbs.



-GV

Nighthawk or Falcon Better Fit
I too found the Merlin LT to be too wide. I bought the Nighthawk, but the Falcon looks to be an even tighter fit. These would have to be purchased used to be within budget. I’m happy with mine.



Lou

5’2", 102lbs
the most important thing after basic fit is weight for a light person. I wouldn’t recomend a 60lb plastic boat or 50lb glass boat anymore than a kayak sized for a 200lb paddler makes sense.



One thing I don’t quite have a clear picture of is the degree of maneuverability and stability you require. There are super light small kayaks available, under 30lbs.



Try and find a CD Raven and adjust your minimal skill level upwards. That’s the best value/weight.



If you require more stability consider a PygmyOsprey 13, it could be made very light and easily carry 40 more lbs.



The compromises you’ll find at that price is primarily kayaks marketed as small but actually made to fit the middle of the sales population,5’9" 175lbs. For you to want fast, light AND cheap you’ve really narrowed it down to a few boats. The collection of 16’ kayaks recommeneded fit people who are 5’6" at 150lbs just great,and fit you like a the average 175lb paddler fits into kayaks designed for 250lb paddlers.

it would be,not wise

– Last Updated: May-13-08 1:21 PM EST –

I'm 200lbs, when my daughter was 11yr and was your size when she learned to roll a Pygmy GE/Osprey 13. I bought a Piccolo for her older sister when they were smaller then built the Pygmy as they got bigger. Years later as they became teenagers and lost interest I sold it to a friend whose wife is five lbs less than you and she COULD NOT keep up with other paddlers in a "16' smaller persons seakayak", a Perception Shadow. That's because the Shadow weighed 65lbs and had more wetted area than needed to support her light weight. Once she got into the 26lb Pygmy she had NO PROBLEM keeping up. Especially as the wind picked up.




The Eliza is a good kayak, I can fit in it and like it. If you were thinking of an expedition boat and planned on carrying 80lbs it would be a wonderful choice. For a 5'6" 150lb paddler it's a perfect "sea kayak" with plenty of reserve to carry 60more lbs of stuff.

For you,,it's big and heavy. Ideally you should be getting a kayak you can pick up and carry. Your ability to accelerate on the water will reflect a similar power to weight ratio as you have picking the kayak up and walking with it.



http://www.pygmyboats.com/mall/Osprey13.asp

Combo of camping and size…

– Last Updated: May-13-08 5:16 PM EST –

There are a few things that you either want now or will find you need for doing extended trips like islands off of Maine that may seem to be at conflict right now, but I am not sure that some of this isn't due to assumptions.

First - re your camping - if you are used to packing a canoe, no matter what you are going to have to reset your sights a bit for camping out of a kayak. Objects have to be smaller in dimensions to make it thru the hatches, overall compactness and reusability become necessities rather than a choice. So you may want to check in on whether you are thinking in canoe terms when you look at storage in a kayak.

I am a terribly inefficient packer, and I could get a long weekend out of a sub-16' boat like the Necky Eliza. Some here who are better packers could get much longer.

If you are talking about multi-day extended expedition use in environments including the ocean you are going to mostly get recommendations for kayaks in the 16 ft plus range, like the Tempest 165 or the CD sea kayaks for small paddlers.

As said so well above, even something like the Tempest 165 that looks like a very tight squeeze for most guys is going to be a lot of boat around you, both on and off the water. I personally paddle an Explorer LV for my long-long boat, so can't say that I haven't made that same choice. But it was also not my first sea kayak, so I had a sense of the trade-offs involved. And my day to day boat is a Vela.

Had I made the camping/big trip boat choice three or so years later, the Impex Force 3 would have been on my list or maybe the CD Rumour. But they weren't available then. The Silhouette was the competition, and as much as I loved the boat in the quieter water near the boat house it really did seem like a little too much boat for what I needed to progress.

Thing is, all of this is more boat and a faster need to get what you probably consider to be advanced skills than your original post seemed to be talking about. So it's getting harder to answer the question.

Your next best step may be to go get a couple of lessons and book some time demoing boats in tours, so that you can get some butt-down sense of what people here are talking about.

Oh - and there is little chance that you'll be in the same primary use boat in 5 years as you start out in. That's not to say you won't still have it and use it at times, just that 5 years is way too long for loyalty in kayaks. There is little such morality in kayaks.

Got that right
"The collection of 16’ kayaks recommeneded fit people who are 5’6" at 150lbs just great,and fit you like a the average 175lb paddler fits into kayaks designed for 250lb paddlers."



I have stayed out of this, but had to comment since someone finally stated what is only obvious to small paddlers or those who have watched them struggle with most “small paddler” boats.



My wife is 5’ 1" and 115# on a bad day and she has almost never found a boat that actually performed well without ballast and/or had a cockpit that fit well. However, at 5’ 10" and 175# I have really enjoyed the boats for small paddlers she has tried, but found wanting. Perhaps since I also paddle a SOF boat, I have a different view of what is a small volume boat and/or a tight cockpit, but I think most people are accustomed to paddling what are really huge boats for the use they make of them.



Oddly, since it is an “expedition” boat, she has found the Impex Force 3 to both fit and perform the best of all boats she has paddled and that includes many suggested here. I won’t repeat what she had to say about some LV versions after taking them out for a paddle.



As an aside, I believe the Force series will sooner or later be seen as one of the great designs. They are offered in distinct sizes, are very efficient, turn/handle stuff exceptionally well, and seem to work well loaded and unloaded. Then again, I own and love mine so what else would I say?

Prefer Piccolo
Hello,

We had a Piccolo (Two trips longer than 7 days with a canoe in Algonquin Park, Ontario)and tried a Clearwater designs Manitou for 6 consecutive days. OUr kayak was stolen so now trying Tsunami SP. PAddlers are primarliy my now 12 year old son (was about 4’9" and 90 lbs when first started, now 10 year old son 4’7" and 65 lbs and wife, 5’2" and 125lbs). None likes the Manitou- too wide and too deep. They struck their elbows on the huill when paddling. All liked the Piccolo,my older son and wife both able to power it through any wind or waves ( up to 2 foot waves) and keep it straight- no probles with clearance or fit. The two boys could carry it togther over 1 mile portage by clipping it onto their backpacks with carabiners. Oldest son took it down soe class II rapids last year and learned how to do a kayak roll in it. It had two float tanks and minimal storage. Tsunami is slower, harder to turn and roll and hs more storage. despite all the hype, they did not find the detaat the piccolo seat any better hn