Tippy,,Tippy Kayak For Me

Advice
#21

I believe it has always been 145 Tsunamiat. 24.5" at 350 lb max; 170 Tempest, 22" at 325 lb max; 175 Tsunami, 24" at 400 lb max. 180 Tempest Pro, 23" at 400 max. (from recall). Displacement is directly related to length/width/draft. What puzzles me is how they made the new 140 Tsunami the same width as the 145 Tsunsmi, 25.5", but the max cap is 325/350 lbs respectively. Yet the old model 140.Tsunami, 24" had a max cap of 325 lbs. That tells me somebody in marketing is fudging numbers.

Anyway, the weight rating should put the boat at a proper load water line that favors edging. You made me think of something that has been baffling me since I started using the 175 Tsunami again. I gained valuable experience over the past three seasons that improved my tracking in the 145 Tsunsmi, I expected better results in the 175 Tsunami, because I recall being able to edge the 175 without aid of a rudder. Now, I find the 175 nearly uncontrolable without the rudder. The only change is dropping 20 lbs of bidy weight, which puts me in a better weight range for the 145. Conversely, the 175 was the better boatbfor me at 255 lbs, but now I wonder if my lower weight affected the favorable trim characteristics of the 175. It now behaves closer to the 145 Tsunami that I moved the seat rearward by 42 mm. I mightbtry ballasting to see if I can improve the handling, because i hate the rudder.

Thereā€™s more to fitment than overall length, width and deck height. The 145 is wider than the 175 and has a taller deck, but the 175 front deck is 18 inches longer, giving it much more foot room. Iā€™d like to try the 140 Tsunami, but the foot room isnā€™t adequate being that the deck is lower, shorter, with less width, and Iā€™m back to overloading it. I enjoyed the 125 Tsunami, 26" at 300 lb max cap, because it handles well. Is easier to load and carry, itā€™s reasonably fast, but Iā€™d need a spray skirt becauseb it rides lower from me overloading it. Great boat for anyone between 150 and 190 lbs.

#22

Lots of good advice here. I recently picked up a used Eddyline Fathom LV, which is 15.5ā€™, 21" wide and likely has a very similar hull. I tipped just getting in the first time, but have been good since. Iā€™ve done a good bit of paddling over the years, but am a beginner when it comes to the real skills required to really paddle and handle these boats well.

The biggest help for me when reading about it is not to over react when the boats wants to lean a little one way or the other. Just move your hips whichever way and youā€™ll realize youā€™ll be fine. Brace if you need to, which is very easy to do. If you over-react and try to counter the movement, youā€™ll increase your chance to flip. Being that I canā€™t paddle too frequently, it takes a couple minutes when I get out to get the feel, but am then good to go. I have a lot to learn, but have been able to enjoy a few paddles with this boat and Iā€™m sure you will as well.

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#23

Time in the hull helps.

#24

@one1speed, the Wilderness Systems Pungo and Tsunsmi line has a very stable and forgiving multi-chine hull design that wants to return to center. You figured out how to control the boat by using your hips. It also helps to keep your head over the centerline of the boat. If your head is off center when the boat rights itself, you feel like youā€™re going to fall out, and that can turn into a sense of being unstable and cause overreaction. Like riding a bike, it becomes second nature.

The same is true of paddling. Rather than muscle the boat around, get a feel for the balance, and just like a bicycle, learn to control and turn by leaning. Focus on consistent, uniform, efficent strokes and speed will come.

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#25

If you want to get some great one-on-one coaching in paddling efficiency, self rescue, bracing, rolling and assisted rescue, you might want to check out the day clinics or multi-day Greenland skills training camps offered by a number of groups in various regions under the sponsorship of QajaqUSA.org, Your Fathom LV is an appropriate model for that sort of paddling, though they do use Greenland style paddles pretty much exclusively in the sessions (they have loaner paddles available for those who donā€™t (yet) own a GP). The skills do translate to improvement with a standard blade paddle as well, though rolling is generally easier to use and to execute with a GP.

I have been attending the QajaqUSA skills camps in both Michigan and on the Delaware coast and they are not just great opportunities for skills development but great fun. There are other paddler group organizations, like Midwest Paddleers, that offer similar training and outings.

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#26

Thank you for sharing this information, sounds great to me. We get up to Michigan a handful of times a year and Iā€™d certainly love to attend. Iā€™ve thought a lot about a Greenland paddle, something for the future.

Appreciate it, will take a look!

#27

Thank you for the ā€˜coachingā€™ and context. Will try to keep this in mind next time Iā€™m out. Thanks for taking the time.

#28

I suggest trying the suggestions above: practice being comfortable / stable a few degrees from centered. Give it some time to get used to. If you donā€™t like the results, trade the boat for one with more primary stability. Maybe a Wilderness Systems? Maybe a Dagger? Try some out.

A buddy of mine never really liked his ā€˜stable-off-centerā€™ kayak despite paddling it extensively. (He paddled it very well).

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#29

The more the merrier. You actually provide valuable insight. Much of this has become automatic through trial and error, so I have no idea how it worked. It wasnā€™t until I started helping Steve that I had to articulate. Then I found that Steve figured out how to do much of it independently. I might be offering advice, but you have figure out much on your own. Iā€™m only validating it or improving it.

I became good friends with Steve through our interaction. He has a pioneer man mentality and wants to make everything or buy cheap. He detests oppulence and was content with $69 paddles. He wonā€™t buy a GPS and doesnā€™t care about speed, but heā€™s fit and strong. So I bought a 240 cm Kalliste from REI and had free delivery to shio it to him be ause zi wanted his input. Heā€™s still trying to figure it out, but in a short 1.18 mile measured course between landmarks, heā€™s hitting timed averages in the 6 mph range. He told me he feels like he canā€™t get it going faster - that tells me heā€™s hitting the hull speed of 6.4 mph for his 17 ft Chatham. When I was his age (60s) I could push the 175 Tsunsmi over 6 mph for 1/3 mile sprints. Steve is stronger than he realizes. The issues he has with the Kalliste is from overpowering. The only way I could replicate the roblem was to overpower the blades. By back studying his issues and analysing the stroke, I managed to forestall flutter until the onset was delayed until 5.8 mph, and I can take it beyond that.

Craig posted that he hits 5.9 mph avg over 3 miles in races. We started side messaging because the public forum became too controversial. Craig does feathered high angle with an assortment of cheap paddles. His paddle cycle is fluid and hard to follow. I need to video it and watch it in slow motion. Between us, I have a 145 Tsunami x 24.5", he has a 145 x 25.5", each of us have a 175 Tsunami x 24.5", he has a 170 Tempest and a 180 Tempest Pro x 23". His son is fast as well and wants to learn my low angle technique.

I was worried that my low angle wouldnā€™t stack up against his polished high angle, but it did over 6 miles. Craig is a beast. Steve is a beast. We each have a different approach, and different infirmities with sound technique.

I worked with a forensic guy who did hypnosis and progressive relaxation. He worked with Ali, Lopez and other sport figures, walked on hot coals, had knee surgery without anesthesia and such. He worked with an archer with a broken arm. Through visualization, he coached the guy in a cast for 8 weeks. When the cast came off, he lost very little of his skill. The muscle hadnā€™t atrophied. Visualize the perfect paddle stroke. That sets the rythemic pace you need. Discuss the process with another paddler. Articulating the paddling cycle reinforces the efficiency. You should work less hard rather than harder.

I try to paddle once a week, or experience a marked drop (rather that improve by .05 to .1 mph each trip, my avg will drop by .2 mph. I only went out 2 times in two months. After discussing paddling with you, Craig and Steve, I hit 5.03 mph on a trip, when I had been hovering around 4.6 mph. The only way I can explain it is through considerable visualization.

#30

A 24 inch beam is a good compromise for load carrying and stability.
A 22 inch beam or anything narrower starts to feel tender to me.